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    I strongly argue against unlimited Translocator. It's nearly impossible to hit someone always zapping from one plays to another with a sniper rifle when you're defending. This a competitive shooter, not a bad racing game. Translocator limitation in UT3 was good AND there was a mutator for those who wanted infinite ammo. Best option imho.
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      try to combo him?

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        I am a UT2004/UT3 enthusiast from Germany (with casual UT99 experience). Although I never really was a pro, I totally embraced the competitive culture of the game - and I more less managed to constantly play at a top level within the game-type that I loved (CTF classic). I'd like to give my opinion here.

        The limit we have in UT2004 & UT3 never really changed the way people were using the translocator. It still was a way to:
        • Transport across the map
        • Intercept the flag-carrier
        • Telefrag
        • Make trick-jumps in conjunction with walls, lifts, tele-porters etc.


        What it changed compared to UT99:
        • You can't spam the teleporter endlessly in close distance.
        • You have to plan your teleports strategically across the map. Which actually adds another level of skill to the weapon as well as countering the weapon.
        • You would respect the architecture of the map a little more, which emphasizes your overall movement skills as well as the tactical aspect of the CTF game.
        • It adds an easier prediction of movement patterns, which leads to interesting plays and counter-plays.
        • It makes the game easier to spectate (big factor for eSports and the success of the game in general).


        Conclusion:

        Traditionally the translocator is the strongest weapon in the game. It is an acceleration and positioning tool, in a game where movement and speed often decides about getting a kill or getting hit, this means it is extremely powerful and can't be underestimated; AND it is able to insta-kill any opponent. The translocator is the main characteristic of CTF and using it is bread & butter to the game mode. However like the Impact Hammer / Shield Gun, which also have infinite uses, it's important to put a limit on weapons that are that dominating and powerful to a game-mode (imagine a Shield Gun with infinite charges, endless warm-up mode).

        Limit on Translocator: YES, because it adds depth to the game-play.

        My suggestion:

        Make the weapon itself even more powerful, but also limit the charges of the weapon more heavily. I really liked the UT2004 Translocator, it was faster and you were able to move further away compared to UT99/UT3. I'd propose to make the trajectory the same speed (maybe slightly faster) and height as UT2004, but make it travel further; also make it easier to telefrag as well as easier to shoot it down. As a compromise give it only 5 charges, With each one automatically filling up after 3 seconds.

        Of course this proposition heavily depends on the movement-system that will be in place. The speed the translocator gives you needs to be perfectly balanced to the speed that the flag-carrier can move. The flag-carrier needs to be able to get away a certain distance before they intercept him. Also the weapon that boosts your movement (like impact hammer/shield gun, maybe something new for this UT?) if used skillfully should be able to move you just as fast or even faster than the translocator (testing needs to be done for a perfect balance).

        I think the discussion on the Translocator is necessary to have. Because it is the absolutely defining detail which determines the characteristics of the CTF game-type.

        Best
        FliccC
        Last edited by FliccC; 05-18-2014, 02:44 PM.

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          Keep the UT99 translocator. No limit.

          If you limit the translocator, then something else will become powerful and people will want THAT limited.

          No, keep the UT99 translocator AS IS. Good players know how to defend against it. Anyone else is just whining.

          Comment


            I think the discussion on the Translocator is necessary to have. Because it is the absolutely defining detail which determines the characteristics of the CTF game-type.

            Best
            FliccC
            except the fact there will be no ctf with limited transloc. you was there and saw what happaned with ut3. if we limit TL again we are repeating the same thing again.

            Remember what happaned with ut3. first it was released with limit. then ut1 players wanted to play without limit by using a mutator. It was refused after a huge debate, and then ctf struggled to get 20 teams playing. do you really want this happening again?

            Ut2004 was only big for like 1,5 years and when ut2004 struggled to get the minimum signups to cups, UT1 CTF had still 4-5 diviosions and an invite only Eurocups.

            I played ut2004 for years and ut3 aswell. I can play with the limit. But i also played years with the first UT. Even tough i can play with limit, no limit is just much better. CTF will never grow again if we limit the TL. We have to keep it unlimited and then we can balance it out (speed, trajectory, fire rate etc). then hopefully both 2k4 and ut players come back and the mod will be appealing to new players aswell.

            Transloc spamming in close range that barely happens in ut1. Running out of charges thus being out of position on bigger maps in ut2k4 that happens quite often.

            You made your point about how you imagine transloc,but im curious how do you think making such changes would help this mod growing bigger and merging the communities wich are split since like forever?

            i consider myself mainly as UT2k4 player and i still think limiting the transloc again is the worst thing what could happen. IF that really happens that will just result in various communities playing seperated from each other with various settings becouse 2k4 and 99 players will barely get a consensus..
            Last edited by Hektoerr; 05-18-2014, 05:30 PM.

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              Originally posted by peterk View Post
              except the fact there will be no ctf with limited transloc. you was there and saw what happaned with ut3. if we limit TL again we are repeating the same thing again.

              Remember what happaned with ut3. first it was released with limit. then ut1 players wanted to play without limit by using a mutator. It was refused after a huge debate, and then ctf struggled to get 20 teams playing. do you really want this happening again?

              Ut2004 was only big for like 1,5 years and when ut2004 struggled to get the minimum signups to cups, UT1 CTF had still 4-5 diviosions and an invite only Eurocups.

              I played ut2004 for years and ut3 aswell. I can play with the limit. But i also played years with the first UT. Even tough i can play with limit, no limit is just much better. CTF will never grow again if we limit the TL. We have to keep it unlimited and then we can balance it out (speed, trajectory, fire rate etc). then hopefully both 2k4 and ut players come back and the mod will be appealing to new players aswell.

              Transloc spamming in close range that barely happens in ut1. Running out of charges thus being out of position on bigger maps in ut2k4 that happens quite often.

              You made your point about how you imagine transloc,but im curious how do you think making such changes would help this mod growing bigger and merging the communities wich are split since like forever?

              i consider myself mainly as UT2k4 player and i still think limiting the transloc again is the worst thing what could happen. IF that really happens that will just result in various communities playing seperated from each other with various settings becouse 2k4 and 99 players will barely get a consensus..
              If you make the Translocator limitless, you need to nerf it in another way, or it will simply be too strong. Either make it less fast, harder to telefrag with, or easier to shoot down. I personally prefer the faster but limited transloc of UT2004 any day over the slower limitless transloc.

              I can easily play translocator-only in any UT against anyone with weapons and be able to compete with them, sometimes even win vs them. In UT2004 and especially in UT3 it's a bit harder to telefrag due to the limit, and I think it should be like this. A starting weapon which counters every weapon, every shield, makes you move faster than anyone else, should be high-risk/high-reward and therefore hard to use.

              And regarding the trench between UT99 & any other UT: Let's be serious, no one really plays UT99 or UT2004 or UT3 anymore (compared to what it once was like). If those 200 people that are left playing 99 and 2004 are too stubborn to make the switch because of this design decision I don't think we should regret this decision. If this game only tries to unite 99 and 2004 it won't do much. We should aim to make this game a success for new players. Therefore let's try out new things.
              Last edited by FliccC; 05-18-2014, 09:30 PM.

              Comment


                Originally posted by FliccC View Post
                Let's be serious, no one really plays UT99 or UT2004 or UT3 anymore (compared to what it once was like). If those 200 people that are left playing 99 and 2004 are too stubborn to make the switch because of this design decision I don't think we should regret this decision. If this game only tries to unite 99 and 2004 it won't do much. We should aim to make this game a success for new players. Therefore let's try out new things.
                Have you looked at the server list lately? People are still playing 99. I played it last week. People still play. Lots of them.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by FliccC View Post
                  If you make the Translocator limitless, you need to nerf it in another way, or it will simply be too strong.
                  This is simply untrue. Offensive players in competitive games always have the lower frag total and Kill/Death ratio. The defensive players get the best of them in the fragging department the majority of the time.

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                    I used to hate trans when i was a noob too, for me it replaced movement skill with point and click

                    But it never caused any balance issues, trans was used in CTF(to excellent effect) and on public servers where people would use it but it wouldn't give them any real advantage as it's just a way to move from A-B which on UT public means nothing when other people are collecting weapons, power ups and shooting your trans

                    People who try to use translocator inside of a fairly short distance are often at a disadvantage as most of the players didn't have the skill to instantly switch weapons and aim on the fly

                    UT99 translocator works the best, if there are balance issues they can be fixed, but for me the stock trans needs to be exactly like UT99

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                      As a note, i once went on a public DM server and went godlike with only the impact hammer, vs people in my clan of the same skill/slightly lower skill

                      Like 10 guys

                      It didn't mean i was great with hammer, or that hammer is an OP killing tool it just means that the game isn't that predictable and random, seemingly BS things are going to happen, particuarly when you're a noob

                      Trust the people who've played with the translocator for over a decade and know how it can be used

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                        Originally posted by histortion View Post
                        re: translocating as a means of avoiding combat
                        Translocating allows players to avoid -some- combat. It increases the amount of combat over tactical ground, and decreases the amount of combat in empty rooms and similar areas that offer no advantage when getting a kill. The realistic result of this is large, chaotic battles at CRUCIAL times, as opposed to a stream of anticlimactic, minor battles. I think these climactic scenarios are the invisible source of so many UT99 players' passion for the translocator. It just feels. so. good to clash in these team battles and win.
                        Perfectly said. The translocator is THE #1 REASON UT99 CTF is filled with so many epic moments. By providing an elegant mechanism for moving from one point to another, players are limited only by their skill when it comes to putting themselves in the right place at the right time. This creates a dynamic battlefield where incredible moments are "common", addicting us with the lure of our next exciting battle.

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                          Originally posted by FliccC View Post
                          If you make the Translocator limitless, you need to nerf it in another way, or it will simply be too strong. Either make it less fast, harder to telefrag with, or easier to shoot down. I personally prefer the faster but limited transloc of UT2004 any day over the slower limitless transloc.

                          I can easily play translocator-only in any UT against anyone with weapons and be able to compete with them, sometimes even win vs them. In UT2004 and especially in UT3 it's a bit harder to telefrag due to the limit, and I think it should be like this. A starting weapon which counters every weapon, every shield, makes you move faster than anyone else, should be high-risk/high-reward and therefore hard to use.

                          And regarding the trench between UT99 & any other UT: Let's be serious, no one really plays UT99 or UT2004 or UT3 anymore (compared to what it once was like). If those 200 people that are left playing 99 and 2004 are too stubborn to make the switch because of this design decision I don't think we should regret this decision. If this game only tries to unite 99 and 2004 it won't do much. We should aim to make this game a success for new players. Therefore let's try out new things.
                          I respect your opinion, but for me it looks you are also too stubborn to make a switch my friend I told you i can play with limit but i see the bigger picture and thats removing the limit again. But i'm just repeating myself.

                          You are talking about trying new things, but 2k3,2k4 and ut3 was played already with limited transloc. Is that anything new then? No. Having a big community with many teams again, that will be indeed new. Not something we had in the past 8-9 years. So lets try that. I can only repeat myself, look at the past how quickly 2k4 and ut3 ctf died, do you want the same happening again? Cups where we struggle to get 16 teams and everyone quitting the game becouse of no interest?

                          Too bad clanbase died, becouse i cant link the old debates.

                          Why would anyone try ctf if it has a small playerbase, and very few teams ( thats not really appealing for anyone ) if there are other mods with many teams and a bigger playerbase.

                          About transloc countering every other weapon and shield, maybe its right, but telefragging is not that easy. Try to teleport the FC with his covering players around. If there are 2-3 enemies around you and you still make the telefrag thats not a balance issue of the translocator thats dumb gameplay from the enemy team or big luck wich happens quite rare. You said you can play against TL only players, but its no different in UT.

                          Not many ut1 players i know can rely on telefrags consistently. Luck is something everyone can have sometimes. Same for the 2k4 players. Some bombing run players could telefrag very well, but in exchange they lacked fragging skills. In UT3 teleport was bugged and telefragging was inconsistent. Telefragging from behind was sometimes impossible for unknown reason. It just didnt happen.

                          And regarding the trench you are talking about, the main thing is not about that few hundred ut1 players left. (Yeah there are still hundreds playing ut1, while theres only a few dozens of 2k4/ut3 player left playing. ) Its about the possible thousands who might return to play from both sides. If there are more teams more and players that is like a chain reaction. That will result in in even more players coming back. Then more beginners will try out the mod and it's more appealing for beginners becouse there would be other beginners to play with. Not only die-hard fans they have no chance against. Uniting 2k4 and 99 is a must, not only for CTF but for ut4 in general.
                          Last edited by Hektoerr; 05-19-2014, 05:16 AM.

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                            To me the only thing the limit does is, it punishes you if you use it wrong. Therefore you have to be efficient in your usage of the charges. It only adds to the complexity & depth of the weapon. It requires more skill to deal with the limit.

                            Basically in game design any limit makes the game more skillful, because you need to somehow deal with the limit. The better you deal with the limit, the more skillful you are. This can be applied to anything in UT, there is a reason for HP being limited, or Rocket ammo being limited. Even the map itself represents a certain limit you have to deal with. The more limits, the more tactics, strategies and skills you have to develop.

                            Imagine Chess with infinite pawns. Yes it can be fun, but it requires more skill if your choices are limited to only 8 pawns.
                            Imagine Tetris without the slow acceleration you get with each level.
                            Imagine Football with players who never run out of energy.

                            I'll support anything that heightens the skill-ceiling of the game while keeping it easy to pick up for beginners.
                            Last edited by FliccC; 05-19-2014, 01:25 PM.

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                              UT99 Translocator without a limit is a MUST-HAVE.

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                                Partial thought here:

                                Hijacking a player via their translocator in team modes, forcing that player to swap to your team (maybe temporarily). I can't think of a mechanism to make it happen, but ideally it wouldn't be easy to pull off, or all that common; just a punishment for leaving one around.

                                Alternatively, shutting one down in a certain way could force painful/disruptive feedback to the user.

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