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Shield Belt OP?

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  • #46
    Yeah, I think the weapons should be harder to use.

    My primary concerns lie mostly with projectile speeds, but much of the AoE are too big as well.

    I can't tell you how many combos kill me because I see them coming, and move to where I think the radius should end and it doesn't. Every time, I'm like "died to another bad combo." Dodging rockets is more an exercise in anticipation than reaction. It's really bad right now.
    Originally posted by Mysterial
    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by OMARHERRERA89 View Post
      Youre the troll since you cant take other people opinions in open forum, and you think ure a relevant player when nobody on this forums actually heard of you (yet you have 700 post´s wtf?) . Is funny how the most active players PLAYING THE GAME, actually have like 10 or 15 posts per account, but some random dudes spend their time posting stuff on here... Thats something EPIC needs to check out.

      In other subject, i dont need to post any video or ss like u want me to, cos 98% of the people playing ut99 knows who i am. I just think you asking for a Quake Live clone, and quake is the oposite from UT99.. You also giving opinions about 1v1 duel when you had never been a competitive player on ut or even quake live. Dont take this as offence but seriously check ur facts.
      It is really pathetic how you try to give your opinion here more weight by furiously mentioning your alleged competence at UT99.
      How about talking about the subject instead of spewing your imaginary fame everywhere?

      On Topic:
      I think the Shieldbelt is fine for any non 1on1 Scenarios.

      Maybe the good old Tripple Damage will be able to fix it? Please keep in mind that Powerups like the Beserk exist, maybe duel maps should make more use of those to counter the Belt

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      • #48
        Unless you make the gametype prevent someone that is wearing the belt from picking those up you'll achieve exactly the opposite.

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        • #49
          The shield belt is very annoying in DM. Everyone runs to it when it's about to spawn. The lucky survivor of the ensuing spam gets a tremendous advantage. When players of a similar skill level play, the one that gets the most shields is the winner. If everyone could somehow get their own personal shield like a killstreak in CoD, that would actually be an improvement. The current system is very luck based and the reward is very overpowered.

          I'd really like to see a change implemented soon.
          Sound designer, composer, flash game dev, and Unreal mapper. My Soundcloud. My games.

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          • #50
            That's the point. Control all power ups. Fight for them.
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            • #51
              I never find these games where it's a dog pile on the belt, and there is a lucky winner. Sounds like it would be fun just combo spamming the bait, and racking up kills. I really doubt that there is much luck involved.

              The belt can serve it's purpose, without trivializing all but the biggest skill gaps in movement and aim, though... at the moment, the weapons and movement are doing a good enough job of that themselves.
              Originally posted by Mysterial
              An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Stolid View Post
                Unless you make the gametype prevent someone that is wearing the belt from picking those up you'll achieve exactly the opposite.
                I do not think that is case case for the following reasons:

                - The more powerups there are, the harder it is to control them all. If an opponent has complete control over Belt, Vials and Amp he would probably win anyways, with powerups or not
                - Unlike a belt which only expires by hitting it the other powerups just vanish after a certain amount of time. In my opinion this means that they are more likely to be a tool of disrupting map control because they are a 20 second gamechanger. On the other hand, if the dominating player secures the powerup it does not grant a permanent advantage like the belt does and is therefore a weaker tool for persistent map control.

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                • #53
                  The problem with using even more op powerups to counter something which is op is that it makes the game a mess of spawn fragging where fully stacked fights last for a very short time. We're already seeing this with the weapon damage so high and the armour values so high to compensate. Introducing another level on top of that to compensate even more is a bad idea imo, it seems much more logical to adjust the real problem with is that weapon damage and armour values are both very high and that you can hit max armour very easily.

                  And yeah, I have to agree with stolid. Once some guy grabs the belt and the amp they're essentially unstoppable for 30 seconds so you'll have an even more extreme case of spawn frag dependency.
                  :|

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
                    The problem with using even more op powerups to counter something which is op is that it makes the game a mess of spawn fragging where fully stacked fights last for a very short time. We're already seeing this with the weapon damage so high and the armour values so high to compensate. Introducing another level on top of that to compensate even more is a bad idea imo, it seems much more logical to adjust the real problem with is that weapon damage and armour values are both very high and that you can hit max armour very easily.

                    And yeah, I have to agree with stolid. Once some guy grabs the belt and the amp they're essentially unstoppable for 30 seconds so you'll have an even more extreme case of spawn frag dependency.
                    I don't see damage being as high as a problem because it allows for more burst damage which in turn enables more agressive play.
                    Tuning down weapon damage and time to kill will give whoever has mapcontrol a larger window to correct his own mistakes and more time to react to situations that surprise him.

                    Yes the amp will make someone wearing a belt more powerful for 30 seconds but the guy who has the belt will most likely win a fight that happens in that timefrime anyways; amp or not.
                    On the other hand it gives the guy without the belt a potential 30 second timeframe to break map control. And unlike other items that you can use (keg, vials, helmet etc etc) it does not grant a permanent advantage for the guy in control should he be able to control several powerups

                    Edit: Basically it's the US Firearms discussion all over again. If the good guy has the gun and shoots the guy trying to rob a bank it's a good thing. If the robber has a gun which enables him to rob the bank in the first place it's bad. I don't really know if people have been trying out duels with amp in the professional scene. I have in private 1on1s and it seems to even things out but i'm surely not a professional duellist
                    Last edited by Chrissss0r; 06-02-2015, 05:39 AM.

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                    • #55
                      The problem is that map control is already fairly irrelevant. It's very easy to get full armour and it's very easy to lose it quickly because it's so easy to do damage with the weapons. I have relatively bad aim but I can be just as effective in a duel by rushing for 10 mins as I can by playing smartly, it just doesn't encourage smart play at all so I see increasing the ease to do damage as a bad thing.

                      As far as the amp is concerned, the reason it's historically not been used is as follows:
                      Whoever has the amp is chasing for the entire duration that they have it and whoever doesn't have it is running. This is particularly boring for everyone involved, and when you consider that the amp lasted for 30 seconds and respawned every 1:30, it essentially forced an entire third of the match into one guy hiding and the other guy trying to find him. The main reason it isn't used now, even with the smaller timer, is because the duel community is stuck in its ways and it's generally regarded as cheap. But this could change. But I highly doubt the duel community will embrace something that lets the weapons do even more damage.
                      :|

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Chrissss0r View Post
                        - The more powerups there are, the harder it is to control them all.
                        Yes more are harder to control. Adding amp would not pose a challenge to the player in control with the current or historical ut spawns. In ql in control players regularly run three items (mega, RA, YA) which all spawn in a 35 second window. Adding a 90 second spawn to a 60 and 30 second spawn will add no pressure at all. Yes there are weapons to control in ut but no players will prioritise weapons over armor/mega/amp.

                        I somehow prattle on about it for several pages in this post. I think it could work just not with the current spawn times, armor setup or anything.

                        Edit: Doesn't the current amp last for 10 seconds in duel?
                        Last edited by joellll; 06-02-2015, 06:08 AM.
                        Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
                          The problem is that map control is already fairly irrelevant. It's very easy to get full armour and it's very easy to lose it quickly because it's so easy to do damage with the weapons. I have relatively bad aim but I can be just as effective in a duel by rushing for 10 mins as I can by playing smartly, it just doesn't encourage smart play at all so I see increasing the ease to do damage as a bad thing.
                          Exactly this.

                          The other day I was playing vs a guy who's been playing this alpha from the start on Dm-Lea. I was positioned well at armor with shock and he was at pulse. He seen me take armor but instead of backing off, he rushed up the ramp with primary fire and 100 hp and killed me. This sort of thing happens constantly, it feels cheap as hell.

                          To me this is really dumb play, but how can it be dumb in a game that rewards it? People are adjusting to being over aggressive. The game lacks any real tactical thinking or speed of thought, and positioning isn't important at all. The weapons are so powerful and movement so sluggish you have a chance in every fight regardless of position or stack, this is really worrying. I hope Epic don't think they're ok or something, imo every weapon besides enforcer and sniper is broken
                          Last edited by nuxx; 06-02-2015, 08:41 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by nuxx View Post
                            Exactly this.

                            The other day I was playing vs a guy who's been playing this alpha from the start on Dm-Lea. I was positioned well at armor with shock and he was at pulse. He seen me take armor but instead of backing off, he rushed up the ramp with primary fire and 100 hp and killed me. This sort of thing happens constantly, it feels cheap as hell.

                            To me this is really dumb play, but how can it be dumb in a game that rewards it? People are adjusting to being over aggressive. The game lacks any real tactical thinking or speed of thought, and positioning isn't important at all. The weapons are so powerful and movement so sluggish you have a chance in every fight regardless of position or stack, this is really worrying. I hope Epic don't think they're ok or something, imo every weapon besides enforcer and sniper is broken
                            I really don't think "someone killed me although i had more armor, that should not be possible!" is the best argument when trying to proof that weaponbalance should be changed

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Chrissss0r View Post
                              I really don't think "someone killed me although i had more armor, that should not be possible!" is the best argument when trying to proof that weaponbalance should be changed
                              That isn't the argument, the argument is the chance of winning a fight by rushing with one of the weapons from a bad position and no armor is big. Of course it should be possible but it happens so frequently some players are beginning to abuse it

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                              • #60
                                You should be able to kill someone with more armour by out-skilling/out-positioning them. But right now it's far too easy :/ You can still have that kind of dynamic, where a player with better aim, skill and positioning can beat a fully stacked player, but it should be a risk to take those fights, not a standard tactic.
                                :|

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