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    Showdown Discussion

    I don't know if I should select a prefix - if mods think it should have one go for it. Since there is no feedback thread yet..

    Takes duel and flips it on its head. Where in duel its about controlling various objects in the world as they spawn, here all objects spawn, everything is live in the world. Including powerups and you can only pick things up once.
    As a fan of hoonymode and FPS that lack resources this gametype struck a chord. Round based gametypes are probably more palatable for many gamers these days but keeping the game item driven is awesome. It was interesting seeing it on stream and hope it becomes the staple for non-flag/objective type game.

    Thoughts after playing some and watching some.

    Pros
    • Armors being added to initial spawns is awesome. Haven’t played a game with this for a while but it makes opening so much more interesting than just weapons. Huge plus. Could write a whole post about this aspect and hope it makes it way back into normal duel as the reason for delayed armors (“unfair” spawns) is essentially gone with spawn selection.
    • Ammo conservation and denial are interesting.
    • Broader weapon use due to ammo being scarce. This is a big point as some some weapons are currently considered underpowered but when ammo is limited, is fun to see everything get some game time.
    • Aggressive play can be interesting, tense - nail biting. The requirement to execute well is high if a player chooses this route due to when it is possible.
    • 200 starting health is good. If armor spawns are not readded to standard duel this could be a nice compromise for first spawn to deal with those awkward initial naked fights that noone wants to commit to due to risk of being one-shot.


    Cons
    • Overall much too defensive for 1v1 on current maps, mainly due to lack of an interaction driver after initial pickups. Seems ok out to around sixty seconds.
    • Aggressive play is severely limited to the start of the game - basically attempts to intercept/deny players at weapons/armors. This would be considered heavy gambling.
    • While the Epic stream makes a big deal about map openings and I even list it as my first pro - it will degrade into “set” starts. This aspect adds interest for me but overall is a small part of the game. Interesting but not too much emphasis should be put on it. wtf am I talking about.
    • Did I mention too +back? Just making sure.
    • Tuba tower. Map specific but when there are 4 maps to select from..


    The defensive aspect could possibly be addressed using smaller maps for 1v1 - something like Rocket Arena 1v1 arenas. However with the current map options it turns into a huge +back fest if anyone takes it seriously.

    Please add a team option (or even ffa) as I think showdown would shine even more in this format. 4v4 on the current maps would probably be ok. Possibly with team spawning on one point rather than all over the map, with the same spawn selection. Allows teams to do things like "2 go belt, X grab flak and go sniper, Y go to pads scout for them...". Pinata or backpack drops may be required - or not, perhaps swapping off weapons to not give them to the other team on death is interesting.

    Something like a queue where players play best of three then the next player is put in rather than continually changing the map - like RA 1v1.

    Ties and Player Interaction.

    +back play is/will be a problem.

    Currently the winner is decided by remaining health. This benefits the player who gets pickups more than their opponent and forces the less stacked player to be offensive. Having the weaker player attack is not ideal in a game that is already skewed towards the defensive. Rather than this my suggestion would be to tie break based on damage given. This decouples the outcome from pickups and +backing onto health cannot win a game - that would be somewhat lame. A last second attack to deal more damage to push over the line would be showy and cool.

    With this in mind a “player is in the lead” (1 or 0, not damage dealt) should be added to the hud for the current round. This way stack estimation is not required and players know exactly what is going on. Having this skill is still important when pushing to kill.

    This also has other ramifications - one player is essentially assigned offense and one defence, but this will switch during the course of a round. Randomly assign first round, then from round two onwards the “advantage” is given to the player that lost the previous round, the assumption being that the lower skilled player lost. Or it could alternate - but the idea is that someone always has the “advantage” from the start of the round.

    Even if a player has less stack they have the option to go offensive, deal some damage and then make the higher stacked opponent come to them. This could create some dynamic situations where the leader swaps and strat change as the round progresses. Lower round time to force the player out of advantage to push for damage/kill rather than waiting as players will tend to do.

    Finally change ties to +1 point and kills to +3 points. This also pushes the player who perceives themselves to have an advantage to be aggressive rather than being defensive.

    It would be hard to say if this would fix the overall defensive nature of the game but it would be a step in the right direction.

    Overall a good start!
    Last edited by joellll; 08-04-2015, 05:51 PM.
    Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

    #2
    I changed the thread to match the other official threads for Epic content like maps. If anyone from Epic sees fit they can set the prefix.
    Last edited by _Lynx; 08-04-2015, 02:59 AM.
    "Yeah. _Lynx can fire the lightning gun, have the lightning bolt turn a 90 degree corner, stop and ask the closest teammate for directions, confuse the directions and get lost, realize it went the wrong way, make a U-Turn, and get a headshot on the intended target."
    - RenegadeRetard

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      #3
      There is a lot of potential for this gamemode, but there are definitely a couple of issues.

      Zaccubus played a couple of games on his stream a while ago and you could see his style develop into a more and more defensive style as he realizes the efficiency of it. There is nothing for it to prevent that.
      http://www.twitch.tv/zaccubus/v/9105474 20 minutes in he starts to play showdown.

      After about 40 minutes of playing he comments: "It's very campy that gamemode isn't it? You have to be very kind of static and really not show yourself too much."

      Comment


        #4
        It seems like the strategy is highly offensive to get the pickups then camp and hide until the other person makes a mistake. I think Stolid was right on IRC that it needs something else that forces interactions more. Currently you only see much fighting around the belt (obviously if it happens) and Shock. Whoever controls those controls the game and can play as defensively as they like.

        You could make powerups persistant, like permanent UDamage or permanent Berserk Would at least force people to focus on those if they don't want them being used against them which in a map like Focus would likely force them to fight over the boots.
        HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
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