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    Originally posted by rawlph View Post
    We've played some rounds on DM-Tuba and everybody seemed to agree that in it's current state, it's not really enjoyable in 3vs3 TSD. If I remember correctly, criticism revolved around having too few weapons and, as Neil already said, a few pretty powerful and imbalanced spawns. Maybe you can elaborate a bit on what exactly you see in this map which we seem to fail to see?
    I didn't say I thought it was good for 3v3. It isn't good for 3v3. I think it's good for 1v1 and still works well 2v2. Even beyond the lack of weapons in 3v3 there are too many sight lines for easy focus fire and not much in the way of escape options. My point was just that I don't think some optimal shock rifle power run is the reason why it is bad in that format.

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      I've only briefly tried it and found that there was too much waiting for my playstyle. Perhaps the picking stage could benefit by picking your first , second and third choice before it's your go.

      That could shave a fair amount of time off the waiting stage. You may want to wait to be tactical, but on public servers it would help.
      Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

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        Spawn Denial Radius (Captain's Idea):
        Originally posted by Mysterial View Post
        We already tried it. It doesn't work. The correct radius is just as map dependent as the spawn positions themselves. Might as well just do better placement. "Level designers don't know the gametype" isn't a good reason to do anything. They need to learn it and make the appropriate adjustments or their map won't work very well. No different than the legions of bad maps for every other gametype, or the maps that are great for FFA and terrible for TDM, etc.
        I think it would be awesome to have a setting in PlayerStarts so that mappers can configure which other spawns to disable when one is chosen. In the minimap, the spawns disabled by a specific spawn could easily be turned red on hover... I wouldn't like to remove the mirror PlayerStarts in my map because I would like to let players choose the direction they want to face at spawn.

        Falling out of the map:
        In my TSD level, there are quite a lot of ledges where you can fall out of the map and die. Bots acting so stupid every round raised the inventory concern to me: Sometimes you may want to drop yourself off a ledge instead of letting the enemy team land the killing shot, so that they won't grab all your weapons, boots and ammo... and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I don't think that 'don't add ledges to your TSD maps' should be the way to go, so you may want to discuss whether to respawn (or not) the weapons and ammo of players who fall out of the map, which could be done in different ways: (2. being my favourite).
        1. Respawn weapons in the Weapon Bases.
        2. Spawn the dead player inventory on the spot where the player was before falling.
        3. Give the inventory directly to the player who last dealt damage to that player.
        Last edited by TheGlecter; 04-28-2016, 12:04 PM.
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          I just started poking around again in UT4 to see how things are going recently. Right now I have to say that Showdown is my favorite UT4 mode. I honestly dont have any real complaints about it. I don't think it takes too long either.
          - Russell Meakim AKA The Castle
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            Played this again finally. Ammo is now respawning. Is this intended or a bug?

            If it is intended could it be changed to make weapons respawn as ammo (larger than single pickups) rather than the ammo. This would make players more predictable(due to less places to go to get ammo)/allow some denial after the first round of pickups. I know the enemy has shock, I can go and get the shock ammo spawn at the weapon, however doing so potentially gives up ammo that I need. etcetc. Seems potentially more interesting and adds choices while providing tighter focus as the round progresses towards overcharge spawning.

            Edit: Of course this is also available with normal ammo, however only having respawns on the weapons provides more focus while adding urgency. In the current setup if I have shock on ASDF and my opponent decides to try to deny one of the ammo packs I simply go to another one.
            Last edited by joellll; 05-20-2016, 07:24 AM.
            Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

            Comment


              One thing I personally really enjoy about showdown is the positioning & counter-positioning of the spawn picking and I feel that having spawn-denial by proximity would really take away that aspect from the game mode. For instance in my TSD map I deliberately place my spawns equidistant from the nearest weapon so that if someone chooses to pick the other spawn and contest that weapon at the start of the round they can. If they do it raises the stakes in the early game, forcing someone who's committed to a weapon spawn into an immediate tussle for it and forcing the situation to be weapon vs enforcer either way. It's a huge gamble that can pay off, and even if you can't get the weapon you can potentially deny other nearby ammo and pickups just by being there as an alternative.

              Comment


                Originally posted by joellll View Post
                Played this again finally. Ammo is now respawning. Is this intended or a bug?

                If it is intended could it be changed to make weapons respawn as ammo (larger than single pickups) rather than the ammo. This would make players more predictable(due to less places to go to get ammo)/allow some denial after the first round of pickups. I know the enemy has shock, I can go and get the shock ammo spawn at the weapon, however doing so potentially gives up ammo that I need. etcetc. Seems potentially more interesting and adds choices while providing tighter focus as the round progresses towards overcharge spawning.
                It's intended but too fast in the current live build.

                Respawning ammo on the weapon bases is a good idea, I'll bring it up.

                Comment


                  Request: Can anyone post a video playing this mode on a serious competitive level? I am wondering how it is to actually watch. Bonus with commentating.

                  This mode has become very interesting I think.
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                    The problem with showdown is that it is against the very core of UT. You spend more time choosing your spawn than actually playing the game. You get double HP, you can pick up armors on the go and somehow you feel like you play battlefield instead of UT with the large damage modifer pools. While it is a good idea to add some tactical choices to UT, I feel rather bored playing it. But as an idea, if implemented and tweaked right it could be a new light for the competitive team based scene.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Scxmdrxg View Post
                      The problem with showdown is that it is against the very core of UT. You spend more time choosing your spawn than actually playing the game. You get double HP, you can pick up armors on the go and somehow you feel like you play battlefield instead of UT with the large damage modifer pools. While it is a good idea to add some tactical choices to UT, I feel rather bored playing it. But as an idea, if implemented and tweaked right it could be a new light for the competitive team based scene.
                      That doesnt seem like a very good argument because the core of UT is still available in the form of TDM, 1v1, and CTF. This would only make sense under the context that those other modes were being replaced by this showdown.

                      Otherwise your same argument could be used to say that Counter Strike should never have been made because it went against the vanilla deathmatch of half life.

                      edit: I agree with the last part of your quote though.
                      - Russell Meakim AKA The Castle
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                        Originally posted by Castle View Post
                        Request: Can anyone post a video playing this mode on a serious competitive level? I am wondering how it is to actually watch. Bonus with commentating.

                        This mode has become very interesting I think.
                        Cafe posted some videos, though I'm not sure how serious "serious" needs to be. I think they were pug matches. His commentary is frequently sarcastic.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Castle View Post
                          That doesnt seem like a very good argument because the core of UT is still available in the form of TDM, 1v1, and CTF. This would only make sense under the context that those other modes were being replaced by this showdown.
                          Time spent choosing spawns is a problem. While I wouldn't word it in such afeels manner* the amount of time doing is an issue, especially for pub play with teams. Combine this with time sitting out while dead and it becomes a little excessive. In 3v3 picking is 60 seconds?

                          For competition it might be ok but it is definitely an issue for pubs. Then the gametype has issues for comp that solid outlines nicely here. The post is indepth and unbiased in its exploration of other avenues the gametype could be taken.

                          *goes against very core of UT, blah blah blah
                          Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

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                            Originally posted by joellll View Post
                            Time spent choosing spawns is a problem. While I wouldn't word it in such afeels manner* the amount of time doing is an issue, especially for pub play with teams. Combine this with time sitting out while dead and it becomes a little excessive. In 3v3 picking is 60 seconds?
                            Maybe they could try some kind of 'spawn pre-select' option - when you could choose your preferred spawn while not in your turn (and if nobody wants your selected point by your turn, then you'll just get it). I think that could shave some waiting time.

                            I also think there's no point to do a (painfully slow) 3-2-1 count before each round as everybody who already choose are only waiting for the last guy to select his spawn. IMO this could be harmlessly replaced with just some kind of short sound sequence (like those cans with compressed air and horns that are used by fans on football games - or something else, more fitting).
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                              Originally posted by exo7341 View Post
                              Maybe they could try some kind of 'spawn pre-select' option - when you could choose your preferred spawn while not in your turn (and if nobody wants your selected point by your turn, then you'll just get it). I think that could shave some waiting time.
                              Choose spawn as soon as you die. This is the inversion of how it plays currently.. I think? The "winning" players pick first.
                              Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

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                                Originally posted by joellll View Post
                                Choose spawn as soon as you die. This is the inversion of how it plays currently.. I think? The "winning" players pick first.
                                Sounds like worth a try. There could be some "collisions" between those who already died but didn't choose his spawn yet. But as idea I like that: the longer you live, the lesser is your choice after you die (on the other hand this could somewhat impair coordinated team-play, if such thing is a case).

                                I just thought my suggestion requires less work to implement...
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