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New Gametype Idea: Payload Capture

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  • replied
    Overall I agree that prototyping with a limited number of features is the way to go here. Very difficult to say what combination of things is best with a complicated mode like this.

    - instead of "can't jump as high when carrying cell" how about "can't jump at all when carrying cell" for simplicity. Granted I'm not exped enough as a player to be able to tell how useful a half-jump will be in any normal maps. Ofc this would mostly need its own maps or would it? If so you could design them specifically with the half-jump or no-jump in mind. Otherwise you should think about whether modding existing [CTF] maps wasn't an option.
    - for simplicity I suggest you can't shoot a cell being carried, you can only frag the player, then shoot the cell if you like.
    - If you wanted to keep the idea of driving the thing around, like someone said, you could combine the two roles and even then if it's too boring maybe you could just waypoint it (or it automatically moves in the given direction or something). Waypointing would require an interactable map screen which isn't a thing yet, either that or a way of pointing at a spot up ahead (in normal vehicle view) and "shoot" there to set a beacon for it to home towards. In-between activating the Nioxu cannon and chucking beacons you could then exit the vehicle to try and be useful elsewhere.
    - Otherwise the nature of the defensive weapon could be altered to involve more aiming or such. It could be equipped with a few different weapons as well as an idea.
    - I don't like the idea of entering the vehicle to act as gunmen, because it sounds very passive and uninteresting for both teams. And a bit confusing - so you're gunning it, but you're not driving it? Maybe something to get used to. But to frag a gunman you're more or less forced to take sniper shots aren't you? If they see rockets coming they can just bail. Oh well, dunno.

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  • replied
    I love that idea. I was scared it was just going to be vehicle defense, because that has been quite overdone. (see Dirty Bomb, Team Fortress 2, Modern Combat missions...) Good luck with it, it may be too much of a hassle to implement all of that backstop though.

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  • replied
    Hi, I really like the idea and the concept of vehicle. And I would love play it.

    As a tip, I would recommend to keep the role of a driver and combine it with the role of defender - I think it should be one player (similar to AT-AT in SW Battlefront). You also wrote that the vehicle was designed to PROTECT the cargo, co I think that it sould be mounted with +- 3 "nests" on it to be able to hide and shoot from - that´s for the design of the vehicle. Shooters from these places can of course be killed and these places could also be seized with attackers to prevent defender to come with cells.

    I´m not completely sure about the draining with a link gun - I would make the gun something like the redeemer in original UT: come to game only once per period until someone catches it. It really wouldn´t do any good for the game if three or four player can have it at the same time -> constant draining would easily lead to a standstill.

    For making sure that it won´t last forever I would add a timer - let´s say 15 minutes - and I would set it the way, that what´s the minute count, that´s the number of power cells on the map at the same time (counted in those carried by players, of course). This would make the game more dynamic throughout the gameplay. And we can say that when vehicle has two full power cells (if one is 15%, than more than 30% of energy) it moves faster (1.5times, 2times?).

    Victory conditions could have been two versions: Harder (get it into base in 15 minutes or lose) or "rugby" - the team having it on "their" side of the map is winning. This would be also a tactic to "hide" somewhere and supply your vehicle and defend it, though it can easily happen that someone would seize the "nests" on it and then capture it when the driver would be thrown out

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RNGuy View Post
    TF2 have different variants of that mode:

    Attack / Defence where only blue team can push cart.
    Symmetric Payload Race where both teams push their own cart.
    Symmetric with one cart where both teams should push it to enemy base. The third one is unofficial and it was least fun out of 3 variants (that's why nobody, Valve too, never made maps for that version)
    It dragged for too long or ended in stalemates almost all the time. I find payload race with 2 carts the most fun.
    I played lots of TF2 in the past and while I liked the attack/defense gamemode I still decided to not inspire myself there. I didn't want to copy paste from TF2.

    I'm trying to create a gametype where there will be a lot fighting over 1 objective with some back and forth action and where there is more to it than just pushing a cart by standing next to it. I really like my idea with the energy cells and I will definitely keep this.

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  • replied
    TF2 have different variants of that mode:

    Attack / Defence where only blue team can push cart.
    Symmetric Payload Race where both teams push their own cart.
    Symmetric with one cart where both teams should push it to enemy base. The third one is unofficial and it was least fun out of 3 variants (that's why nobody, Valve too, never made maps for that version)
    It dragged for too long or ended in stalemates almost all the time. I find payload race with 2 carts the most fun.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by MetroidZA View Post
    This sounds like a fun game mode but it could potentially be too complicated or end up taking too long for the match to end, like Onslaught at times.

    Are the defenders allowed to pick up the Link Gun as well? There needs to be some balance to prevent defenders from camping at the Link and attackers from camping by the energy cells. I suspect that map design will be especially important if this mode is to work.

    It's a good idea but I think it will require a playable version in order for it to be balanced and refined.
    You are 100% correct. Because the gameplay of this map is a little complicated it'll be extremely important to think about everything and make changes during playtest phase. But I'm not going to run before I can walk here. Right now I haven't done any real work yet. This is still a concept in my head. However I am planning to give it my very best to create this. I already drew a top-down layout of the level I will be making for this. I will then try to create a rough, undetailed level based on that and then do the blueprinting / coding work. If I think it will be going to work out, then I'll put some more attention to the map etc..

    1. I will make sure to implement some nice features to prevent the game from taking too long to end like increasing death timers or shortcuts which will open after a while.

    2. I'm still innerly debating on whether link guns will spawn on the map or players will start out with one. If I will let them spawn on the map everyone will be able to pick them up but I'll make sure they are not campable or even worth camping at all.

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  • replied
    Good idea for game mode. sounds fun.

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  • replied
    This sounds like a fun game mode but it could potentially be too complicated or end up taking too long for the match to end, like Onslaught at times.

    Are the defenders allowed to pick up the Link Gun as well? There needs to be some balance to prevent defenders from camping at the Link and attackers from camping by the energy cells. I suspect that map design will be especially important if this mode is to work.

    It's a good idea but I think it will require a playable version in order for it to be balanced and refined.

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  • replied
    Really nice idea's there Delfigamer. You're right about the driver/defender issue. I think that both roles might be boring as hell. So either I'll combine them as you suggested or get rid of them and go further with your tracks idea.

    Regarding the spawns of the cells, I didn't mean "completely random". I would define several dozens of spawn locations on the map and let them randomly spawn on those. I also like your idea of influencing the spawns according to the current state of the game. The idea of announcing the spawns is great as well. This will draw the attention of both attackers and defenders and decide the pace of the game.

    I'm not sure I'm going to change the way the energy draining works. I don't really like the idea of draining it into another energy cell but I do like some sort of high risk/reward system. I'll see what I can do there.

    I'm kinda 50/50 about the last thing you mentioned. I would have liked to create a more brawlish scene in between cell spawn where attackers would seek out defenders and just straight up pvp. On the other side your explenation of sustaining and external energy shield would fit really well. Nevertheless tho, I don't really want to create long wait times between energy cells. There should always be multiple cell on the map at any given time. Some might make it to the vehicle, some might get destroyed.

    Anyways thanks for your feedback. Like I said before, awesome idea's there. I kinda gave up on this due to the lack of responses I got. Your thoughts gave me some new inspiration. I might try my hands on this now but I gotta learn everything from the start. Would be cool if someone could show me around or point me to some good tutorials. That would help out a lot.

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  • replied
    I think the roles of a driver and a gunner should be combined. The reason is that just driving a slow, bulky thing is not fun.
    Or maybe we should get rid of a driver altogether, instead making the vehicle ride on some sort of tracks, possibly with some forks and alternate routes activated by special gameplay objects in other places of the map. For example, there could be a number of switches placed alongside the tracks, the state of which is defined by what team currently owns it, and to capture them one would need a power cell.
    Regarding the power/fuel cells, I think totally random spawn wouldn't work very well, because one team could get several good spawns in a row and win by luck, so at least there should be some well-defined spawn points for the things - maybe some kind of dispensers, teleporters or something like that. Furthermore, the teams should be at least warned about the place of the next spawn some time ahead, to force some action and further reduce the influence of luck. These spawn points could even be switched on and off depending on the current position of the vehicle.
    Instead of giving yet additional functions to a poor pulse rifle, we could allow attackers to drain the power storage by bringing a power cell to the vehicle by themselves - a high risk/reward tactic.
    We can also introduce some environmental hazards in strategic places for attackers to dump the cells into, denying the enemy team their power for some time. And, to give players something to do while another power cell is still arriving, we could give them some reward for attacking the vehicle directly - maybe drain its power a little for damage received (and explain that as sustaining some kind of external shield), or enable a mechanic to temporarily slow the vehicle down - possibly by directly damaging it, or by damaging the tracks underneath it.

    Though, really, the best way to go would be to whip some kind of prototype in BP and then iterate on that. I don't have much free time now, due to school, but I could try to make an implementation (and familiarize myself with the engine a little more).

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  • replied
    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    I dont really like the name though, if I would make a suggestion would be to call it Convoy. I think names such as this an Annex are much more interesting, when it comes to vehicles Fuel might be a nice name for a vehicle Domination type
    Thanks for the suggestion, I really like that name! I changed it but I can't change the title of the topic Maybe a mod could do this in my place.

    Do you have any feedback on the gametype itself?

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  • replied
    I dont really like the name though, if I would make a suggestion would be to call it Convoy. I think names such as this an Annex are much more interesting, when it comes to vehicles Fuel might be a nice name for a vehicle Domination type

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  • replied
    Would love to get some more feedback guys

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  • replied
    Hey Dolphin.

    Nice to see someone likes this idea I had no clue whether someone else than me would love it.

    The extra damage from the link gun was mostly to fit it with the lore. This energy is very strong and powerful, heck it needs to power a beast machine. So I thought it'd be cool if it would deal this extra damage because it's so strong. If it would turn out to be too powerful I'd rather opt for a decay increase. If it would still not feel ok then we could implement your suggestion and get rid of the decay.

    Am I likely able to create a prototype? Probably not. Is it likely that I would try? Depends if this idea is much wanted. I would search for other people on this forum to help. I have 0 experience with UE4. Not sure if my experience as a professional software / web developer would help in creating blueprints. I've only seen the basics of C++ before.

    Nevertheless I think it'd be my responsability to create this if I would want it to have a chance to be implemented (officially or as mod). As you wrote it's a lot of text and theorycraft, people need to be able to play this to see if they like it.

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  • replied
    I love this idea. I could see this being really, really cool to play with a group of friends, or even in a public server.

    In regards to the link gun, I don't necessarily think that it should deal extra damage, as it seems like quite an important weapon as is. Perhaps leaving it at the default damage would be fine. Whether you keep the ammo decay or not might be influenced by this, I would perhaps say that it shouldn't decay ammo.

    Otherwise, I love how the energy cells work, and the overall idea of moving the vehicle towards a base. The team play could be quite good. Would really need some form of prototype before anyone can know how everything will work in practice. Is it something you are likely to be able to create?

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