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    CTF half time side swap

    Hey, playing the pre-alpha I noticed two things, first is a half time in CTF games and second is the presence of a large number of asymmetrical CTF maps.

    Personally I'm a big fan of asymmetry in level design and I like the maps so far, however I have noticed some concern over balance. The idea I have is to swap sides at half time, that way if one side is advantaged it is still even(ish). This is how games of counter-strike work, a very different game but one that is famous for both asymmetry and competitive balance.

    The main issues I see with this idea is how to implement it. Is a case of everyone just switches colour at half time (along with their scores), this seems the easiest to do but has the issue of changing people’s colour half way creating issues of target recognition (personally I feel this isn't a big deal but it is a thing). The other is switching the map's colours around with the side switch so red becomes blue etc. This is much harder as I requires two versions of the map be made to switch between but it preserves team colours.

    I want you guys thoughts on this. I love the asymmetrical levels and I don't want them ignored for balance reasons when this seems like a way to fix it.

    #2
    We already do this. The LDs created a bunch of blueprints for team colored objects that can change color when the sides swap.

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      #3
      Yeah, it's been this way since the first asymmetrical map was released. IMO, it doesn't really balance the map effectively enough, especially in games that go to overtime. That's kind of another discussion altogether though. I am a bit surprised though that you didn't notice it already was happening at halftime.

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        #4
        The main problem right now is that one side may have such an advantage that it ends before it ever gets to halftime. Maybe if the game detects who the better team is and forces them to have the harder side first round.. though this too would have problems and people would still find ways around it.

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          #5
          I love Asymetrical Maps too and hope coming more soon

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            #6
            Well it could be a decision put to the team kinda like with cricket you can choose to bat or bowl first, people on the team should know generally if they prefer defense or offense and which is their strongest so it can go to a majority vote which should help to alleviate some of that particular issue.
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              #7
              Well take Volcano, I actually want to attack the volcano base first round cause I enjoy that challenge, it's a bit more of a rush getting out of that base. Unfortunately the majority would not agree, they just want a perfectly even game.

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                #8
                Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
                The main problem right now is that one side may have such an advantage that it ends before it ever gets to halftime.
                Yeah I see that often enough. I always thought that asymmetrical map should be handle like Assault. So if one team get the max cap before the half time, it switch and give the same amount of time to the opposing team. Over time can be handle the same way as well. As soon as 1 team score, team switch side for the same amount of time the team score. Of course if the one that score the first cap in over time cap again after switching side and before the time is over they got the win.

                That's the most fair way of using asymmetrical map that I can think of. The down side is that can make the match longer and might add to the confusion to new player like half time already does.

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                  #9
                  i like most of those ideas there. the problem is once team a has capped max number they will focus on defense so right there i have a hard time seeing how it would work out. team b would still be at a disadvantage.

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                    #10
                    In my opinion competitive CTF should always be played with a preset time limit and no max caps. But for public matches with time limit and max caps I like the idea of giving the other team the same amount of time, if the first team reached the max cap before the time ran out.

                    I don't know what to think about how "advantage" is currently handled. Somehow I feel like there shouldn't be a time limit for "advantage", but maybe it would be exploited then.

                    About Overtime:
                    Originally posted by LeChris View Post
                    Over time can be handle the same way as well. As soon as 1 team score, team switch side for the same amount of time the team score. Of course if the one that score the first cap in over time cap again after switching side and before the time is over they got the win.
                    Sounds like a good regulation.
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                      #11
                      Weird, I could have sworn that I didn't swap side but I just tried it and it did.
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                      Well that solves that, as this system works well. I hesitate to delete this thread as points have been made about sides reaching the score cap before the half time. I feel that as was mentioned above by LeChris that there should be a score cap on a per half basis set to half the total cap. If one team reaches this cap then the game imediatly switches halves and playes the other half with the same amount of time as the first. If either team hits the overall cap in the second half (2xfirst half cap) then the game end with that team the victor.

                      Really it just forces the game to be split in half, by score or time. Which ever happens first.

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                        #12
                        It's worth keeping the discussion going as the title itself isn't inaccurate, even if the post was incorrect. There are issues that do need to be discussed.

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                          #13
                          I don't see why this is necessary. I have rarely stepped into a pub ctf server and seen everyone stay the entire 20min. Switching sides and half time only adds confusion and disrupts the flow of pubs. In competitive play this might be necessary on certain maps, but then again I doubt competitive players will pick one sided maps to begin with... Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
                            The main problem right now is that one side may have such an advantage that it ends before it ever gets to halftime. Maybe if the game detects who the better team is and forces them to have the harder side first round.. though this too would have problems and people would still find ways around it.
                            If a map design is consistently that far out of balance then it needs to be fixed in the map design. Just flag / player spawn positions can make huge differences. Otherwise maybe it should just be an onslaught map instead of trying to make the CTF rules fit a onslaught map design.

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                              #15
                              As far as halftime itself goes, as well as side switching, I'd really like them to be optional please. Make a checkbox on the game creation screens or something. Like, I realize there's a huge number of folks who like the half time deal n all, but I find it disruptive and unnessecary and as a result I don't play a great deal of CTF anymore. Never been a fan of side switching, but I can understand why its used for asymmetrical maps.

                              Be keep to see some more symmetrical maps though... the asymmetry is nice and refreshing and all, but I don't want all of em to be that way.

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