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Vehicle game modes and their past problems.

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    Vehicle game modes and their past problems.

    Today's subject is vehicle game modes and vehicles. More so on the former than the later because the very rules and norms of the game mode have a lot to say about how vehicles operate and need to be balanced in terms of usability, effectiveness. and whatnot. Oh- for those of you who don't like vehicles please don't waste your time or mine by posting that. I am presuming vehicles exist here and I'd rather like it if there could be a substantial discussion on the problems of the game modes.

    Now, a part of me wants to start off with something "vehicle game modes suck" but that's rather disingenuous. I only think they suck because I would like to be believe I have imagined a better way to do it, so it sucks by comparison. I'd rather play onslaught or warfare than the other games with vehicles that are out there in the market and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy myself some Warfare or vCtF. Though my idea of better also involves challenging the status quo quite a bit- er, drastically. As for what I felt was wrong with the existing vehicle game modes is that the rules reward spam and the vehicle design has been based around that and attrition. Neither of which are very fun. Spam, I think I can factually state, is frustrating to be on the receiving end of and boring to use once the initial wow factor wears off. Because it's so easy to pull off and so rewarding at that, it demands that the other team be willing to spam back to be able to compete which in turn leads to matches turning into a long grind. Which I suppose is why competitive play was usually done with low numbers of like 6v6. That curtailed a lot of the problems on that end but that's hardly a solution. What about for everyone else who wants a 32+ man game?

    Fixing this requires a few things in addition to retooling and rethinking all the vehicles. First up is friendly fire because that means you have to think about your shots a little bit. Friendly fire is a must for a game like this. At the same time it needs some constraints to make it reasonable which is why it never took off for being used in 2k4 or UT3. The possibility of getting run over by your teammates adds nothing, so preventing damage that would come from getting run over by a friendly source is a must. The damage taken from friendly fire needs to be reduced because let's face it, the weapons of UT aren't exactly that friendly. Rather than simply reducing the incoming damage to small fraction or something like that, I feel that it would be sensible to add a special "team shield" that soaks up 100% of friendly fire damage until it's depleted before you start to actually take damage to your "real" armor or health. Getting chumped by team damage sucks but that defangs it enough to that messing up and firing a tank shell into a teammate isn't going to screw them over. The team shield of course applies to vehicles as well. Another thing I would like to do is make it so your team shields automatically regenerate when you are around a friendly node or are near your base for vCtF. Second, vehicles would need actual ammo supplies. Like with the team shields though, they would regenerate on their own near a node/base at a set rate. With that, spam is somewhere between dead and a bad idea.

    Now, before anyone jumps out and starts going on about how there's no way this would work with such a hectic game I would like to detour a minute to Enemy Territory. Even a 64 man server filled to the brim friendly fire was left on even though there were things like air strikes and artillery that could easily wipe out your own team if misplaced along with the flamer and panzer. The moment you turned off FF in the game was the moment it went to hell and everyone would be throwing air strikes or artillery or using the panzerfaust because they didn't have to worry about things like your team getting in the way. A limitation, if well placed, can make a game more interesting. This is one of those limitations and like with ET, Onslaught and vCtF would get a breath of fresh air for it.


    I'm going to stop here for now before I actually start to talk on the vehicles themselves to give everyone a chance to mull over that. I'd like to see if anyone sees something I overlooked on this before I get into why the vehicles as they are suck and whatnot. I'll be making that in it's own post but I'll splice into here along with things people feel are important.
    Last edited by LDS-555; 05-13-2014, 08:29 PM.
    Wanted for crimes against the English Language.

    #2
    https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...r-vehicular%29

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      #3
      Just because Epic is focusing on foot doesn't mean there isn't merit to discussing these matters now, especially since I believe I just suggested what amounts to heresy to most warfare and vctf players. I also see no reason to merge with other threads since I'm straight up talking about changing things drastically rather than going "vehicles y/n" or "warfare or onslaught".
      Last edited by LDS-555; 05-13-2014, 08:05 AM.
      Wanted for crimes against the English Language.

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        #4
        My opinion? These modes have nothing to do with a competitive arena shooters for a variety of reasons.
        UT should be focused on movement, aiming, prediction, knowledge and overall skill.
        While these modes with ridicolous large maps and "vehicles" are indeed fun, they don't fit UT.
        The people who play these modes are the same who want the double jump and dodge jump, why? Because so they can move faster in these large environments and go on the vehicle.
        Want to play with vehicles? Go play Call of Duty (I played the 2 times ago, it was fantastic, but the only one I played), Battlefield, whatever I don't care, meanwhile you wait for mods/mutators to come out.

        Why I think these modes should not be default? Because Epic is focusing on foot, as you already said. If they develop vehicles, that means they are going to make big maps, so they should balance everything with the movement style they're going for and the kind of gamemode they want to do (Onslaught/Warfare). I hope for all the vehicles lover that gamemodes like these will be default, AS LONG AS they keep the gameplay intact.

        Really, I heard people suggesting jetpacks and wall running...

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          #5
          You are more than welcome to your opinion and thank you for sharing it. That said I think what I am introducing would go a long way to making vehicle game modes more skillful.

          Originally posted by van Kuss View Post
          Why I think these modes should not be default? Because Epic is focusing on foot, as you already said. If they develop vehicles, that means they are going to make big maps, so they should balance everything with the movement style they're going for and the kind of gamemode they want to do (Onslaught/Warfare).
          There's literally no reason to change the movement to accommodate for large maps. I want them to make the movement in mind for TDM/CtF, not Onslaught/Assault/vCtF. It's easy to add something like a hover board, a jetpack, or even a translocator to aid with getting around in a large map.

          From my position, you seem like you are afraid the mere presence of vehicles means they are going to contaminate the design process of TDM and such.
          Wanted for crimes against the English Language.

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            #6
            Originally posted by LDS-555 View Post
            From my position, you seem like you are afraid the mere presence of vehicles means they are going to contaminate the design process of TDM and such.
            Ye, and I truly hope this won't be the case.

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              #7
              I can't really blame you about that given 2k4 and UT3.
              Wanted for crimes against the English Language.

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                #8
                Vehicles do not belong in Unreal Tournament. The game is not based around vehicles and its success NEVER came from vehicles. Vehicles take all the skill out of a game and turn it into a who can sit around the longest waiting for a vehicle to spawn then getting easy kills while using it. In the past (all unreal tournaments after UT99) it felt like all the Unreal games were trying to compete with games like COD and Battlefield because they were and still are very popular. Unreal Tournament should be different and give its own take on the first person shooter. Vehicles are also too cartoony in Unreal Tournament, if I play a game where I am driving around in vehicles, any type of game, racing or FPS, I want those vehicles to be true to life/real. I dont want to drive around in some made up goofy looking vehicle, I want a vehicle I can relate too.
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                  #9
                  Oh for the love of god, that isn't productive in the slightest.
                  Wanted for crimes against the English Language.

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