Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    What if make just the opposite - more skulls - less health-armour but close to win. I would be more correct because player with many skulls is a skilled player and if others are noobs they have no chance.
    Last edited by e1vp; 11-04-2015, 03:38 PM.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by [Epic]Frost View Post
      FrostbyteGR,

      This looks like a lot of fun. I'll mention it to the rest of the team and see if they would be able to playtest it sometime in the near future.
      Thanks!
      I'll be sure to keep an eye out for any feedback the dev team will have for me.


      Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
      As far as mechanics go, personally I would prefer UT3-greed like mechanics, for example:

      - You start with 100 HP
      - After certain amount of skulls, you recieve a certain amount armor upgrade / powerup
      - Tigh pads could be recieved after 5 skulls
      - Armor Vest with 10 skulls
      - Belt with 15 skulls
      (see the relevance? 5 skulls 50 armor, 10 skulls 100 armor, 15 skulls and 150 armor )
      - Amp with 25 skulls (the countdown timer still applies)
      - Berserk with 35 skulls (the countdown timer still applies)

      Why?

      Because: the more skulls you carry, the greater target you get. People will start working together to take that guy out. The gain armor / powerup as you get skulls balances this out a little bit and further promotes teamwork even if it's DM to get out that high count skull carrier which puts an interest twist on DM (a bit "Betrayal"-like).

      It's also more fun to collect skulls this way and makes it feeling more "dynamic".
      I feel that they would unnecessarily complicate the game. I modeled Avarice and Greed like that, because I wanted to keep them pretty straightforward.
      The guy who's carrying alot of skulls is already a high value target, in my opinion, because this means that he can potentially yield more score than guys who have less skulls on them. Score is more important than PUs/Armor because it's directly tied to winning the game.
      I will however admit that I find 199 health to be a little too much, so I might consider bringing it down to 100, just to test if the GameMode flows better with it.

      About the Armor/Amp/Berserk/Invis, I think mechanics that utilize those, will be more suitable for my next GameMode: Mutant.

      Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
      I think the "Greed" mode in this UT could be a dynamic version that could be span both over DM/TDM/CTF and vCTF maps and it slightly alters it depending if it's DM/TDM or CTF/VCTF map picked but yea the basic rules of Greed could be quite the same. I think this is really something worth pondering about. It's too much the same to be added as separate modes, instead it should be seen as one gamemode, just the map type slightly alters the mechanic to either play as the classic greed or this slightly twisted greed mode.
      Again, having a GameMode be compliant with multiple map types (assuming that's possible to pull off) is not a good thing.
      Imagine playing Greed on a CTF map, and then at the end people vote for a DM map. The game will then move to a different playing field, with slightly altered rules.
      It's not only going to overcomplicate things which should be simple, it will also confuse players alot.
      There is a reason why the different rulesets are separated into different GameModes. You always know exactly what you're playing that way.

      Let me also take this chance and say that Greed mechanics and gameplay should be discussed on the Greed thread.

      Originally posted by e1vp View Post
      What if make just the opposite - more skulls - less health-armour but close to win. I would be more correct because player with many skulls is a skilled player and if others are noobs they have no chance.
      Again as I stated above, knowing that a player with many skulls is a high-score-payload if you manage to kill him and loot his skulls, is already a very strong reason for people to go after specific targets.
      This also stresses the importance of knowing when you should deposit. A player will have to also balance this, in order not to become such a target.
      I am currently investigating on whether I should introduce a deposit cooldown mechanic or not. And also whether or not I should take away the ability to score points via killing, and cause scoring to be exclusive to depositing skulls, so people will not be able to rack up score that simply.
      > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
      > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
      > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by FrostbyteGR View Post
        My GameMode is Avarice, not Avarice-XR, that post is going to confuse alot of people. What's showcased in this video is NOT my GameMode, but a modification of it. And you need to be more clear about it.
        I appreciate the fact that the source code is being used for study purposes, and that people have fun experimenting with it.
        But, having a singular conduit where the redeemer used to be, is not reliable. Many maps won't even feature super-weapons, DM-ASDF and DM-Chill, are but a few examples.
        As far as custom movement options, I think Epic spoke for themselves in which direction they want it. Maps are neither designed, nor are suitable, for double jump. (or any other sort of extended movement, I'm afraid)

        Also, please keep projects or variants like these, in their own thread. People that see that video, will think that this is actual Avarice.
        And while it's still close to the original, it's not the same. People are already getting the wrong idea.
        Any videos posted on this thread, should be about Avarice, not variants of it.


        I'm pretty sure they have noticed it already.



        Meshes, Sounds, Visual FX and Materials are WIP. If I find something better and more suitable, for anything in those categories, I will update it. I might also investigate putting flashing text like in CTF when you get a flag. I do want to make it more obvious.
        The reason I went with such a small base mesh, is that I wanted the base to have the exact "footprint/diameter" as a weaponbase has. Reason is, that people might put ammunition next to the weapon bases, and I don't want it getting overlapped.

        I'm glad you like it guys!
        I apologize...you are 100% correct. I reRecorded using your only your Avarice Game type and Uploaded and changes it...my bad!

        I do want to point something out which I find strange .... I made the video by recording a saved in game Demo recording. The demo record does not show your Conduit ...it replaces it with the Pickup base and Emitter! Just so you don't think I changed that

        Also both Versions are on the server...I had to move all the files into a new Folder and Rename the Files to Stop the Version problems we had before!

        Last edited by Megasporwic; 11-04-2015, 06:02 PM.
        Running the Mega Hub for everyone to enjoy!

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by [Epic]Frost View Post
          Megasporwic,

          This looks fun as well, but I think it would be beneficial to start a new thread if you plan on continuing to iterate on Frostbyte's version. This will make it easier for everyone to provide feedback on both versions without it getting all jumbled and confusing in the same thread.

          Thanks guys, I am looking forward to trying these out
          -Frost
          Yes I got it!
          Last edited by Megasporwic; 11-04-2015, 06:00 PM.
          Running the Mega Hub for everyone to enjoy!

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
            The demo record does not show your Conduit ...it replaces it with the Pickup base and Emitter!
            I think that the demo record is not reproducting the Post Init code properly. The code should destroy the bases and spawn conduits where they used to be.
            Judging by the fact that the weapon bases are intact, this means that in demo, that specific portion of the code doesn't work. I will have to investigate a better way of handling the replacement algorythm.

            Also, just now I noticed that in Avarice-XR you only changed the double jump, you did not change where the conduits spawn. I was initially confused because in your demo I was seeing weaponbases intact.
            If adding double jump is all you want to do, I strongly recommend not making a new GameMode. But rather use the existing GameMode with a mutator that provides double jump. It will be chaos if we start spawning multiple GameMode variants for such trivial changes.
            > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
            > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
            > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

            Comment


              #21
              And that makes perfect sense as I am currently working on that exact Mutator! I will put it together tonight and see how it works. FrostbyteGR
              I honestly wasn't trying to take the highlight out of your work.. I just wanted a quick video of the over all game type!
              I wouldn't worry about them not showing up in the Demo recording...but this is good test info to pass on to the Devs.
              Can I suggest some changes for the next update? I feel like the conduit is bland and needs some attention! Maybe a Nice Particle effect that extends up from it. Might help the player know its a place to cash in. Also I notice the Collision to cash in is rather low which forces the player to walk over it rather than jump through it. Maybe extent that up a little as well or use a Volume..maybe a physics Volume? I think the skulls could look better maybe as a Shiny Gold color Material.
              The over all game play seems to play out good but I do agree the health with all the Armor seem a bit much. We really need some solid testing with 10 players! Something I did notice: I loaded the game type up on a regular server (not hub) and you get a point for the Killing the player plus the skull. This could be from something I did setting it up on my end.... but that needs testing also!
              Last edited by Megasporwic; 11-04-2015, 10:32 PM.
              Running the Mega Hub for everyone to enjoy!

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                And that makes perfect sense as I am currently working on that exact Mutator! I will put it together tonight and see how it works. FrostbyteGR
                Glad you are doing so. It's not an easy thing to pull off, so I wish you best of luck on your endeavor! Remember, the forums are open to anyone who seeks knowledge. In which case, the programming section, will be your friend.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                I honestly wasn't trying to take the highlight out of your work.. I just wanted a quick video of the over all game type!
                I did not receive it like that, so rest assured. I merelly pointed out that things like the ones you desire (an algorythm that gives all weapons, or introduces changes in the movement system) are best suited as mutators. Not only because they don't fit in a GameMode environment, but also because people might want to use it for other GameModes and you really do not need to rewrite them again and again for every GameMode. It also makes it management alot easier, when every GameMode exists in one package instead of multiple variants.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                I wouldn't worry about them not showing up in the Demo recording...but this is good test info to pass on to the Devs.
                This is certainly valuable information for Epic devs, and I will forward this through Frost.
                But this also means that I might have also poorly done my code implementation, this gives me tips on what improvements and workarounds I should seek.
                To be honest I never bothered having concerns about the demo system, until you brought up this issue. A well polished GameMode needs to work flawlessly on every subsystem of the game. Be it realtime playing, spectating, or even during a demorec.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                Can I suggest some changes for the next update? I feel like the conduit is bland and needs some attention! Maybe a Nice Particle effect that extends up from it. Might help the player know its a place to cash in. Also I notice the Collision to cash in is rather low which forces the player to walk over it rather than jump through it. Maybe extent that up a little as well or use a Volume..maybe a physics Volume?
                I have thought of making a particle system to the bases, with particles that slowly float upwards, however right now I am having difficulties implementing Dynamic Material Instances in the Particle Systems.
                Once I have acquired enough knowledge on how to better handle the Particle Systems and a way to properly implement Dynamic Material Instances for them, I will certainly pretty them up more.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                I think the skulls could look better maybe as a Shiny Gold color Material.
                Ideally yes, that was also my plan. Thankfully, it's as easy as finding the appropriate hue for it.
                I might not be able to provide gold, but have it closer to yellow, as I need to find a fine line to balance visibility.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                The over all game play seems to play out good but I do agree the health with all the Armor seem a bit much. We really need some solid testing with 10 players!
                Right now my results from both FreezeTag (Arena) and Avarice are:
                199/150: Takes 4 direct rockets to kill someone.
                100/150: Takes 3 direct rockets to kill someone.

                I'm definatelly considering going back to 100 health, as ammunition management is going to be a problem.

                Originally posted by Megasporwic View Post
                Something I did notice: I loaded the game type up on a regular server (not hub) and you get a point for the Killing the player plus the skull. This could be from something I did setting it up on my end.... but that needs testing also!
                This is the intended behavior for the time being.
                I have plans for not allowing people to score points via killing (and have point scoring exclusive to capturing skulls), but this will come once I have a better grasp of the blueprint code and I can properly implement it.
                > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                Comment


                  #23
                  New Version 1.3 Changelog:

                  General:
                  • The GameMode has now reached beta state.
                  • The GameMode is now compatible with 4.11-based builds.
                  • Added GameMode badge texture to be used by the HUB UI. (Credits to frez)


                  GameMode Customization:
                  • Added StartingHealth variable to the GameMode customization variables. Controls how much health the players receive when they respawn. (Allowed range is 100-199)
                  • Added StartingArmor variable to the GameMode customization variables. Controls what types of armor the players receive when they respawn. (Allowed range is 0-7)
                    • 0 - No armor (0)
                    • 1 - Helmet (20)
                    • 2 - Thighpads (50)
                    • 3 - Thighpads + Helmet (70)
                    • 4 - Chest (100)
                    • 5 - Chest + Helmet (120)
                    • 6 - Chest + Thighpads (150)
                    • 7 - Chest + Thighpads + Helmet (170)
                  • Added StartingAmmo variable to the GameMode customization variables. Controls how much ammo (in percentage) the players receive when they respawn. (Allowed range is 20-100)


                  Performance:
                  • Slightly optimized the performance and bandwidth of the GameMode by improving a few functions.
                  • Dropped skulls now have 60 seconds of lifetime until they get automatically destroyed, to avoid performance regression and cluttering.


                  Balance:
                  • Kills will no longer award any score to the players, in order to encourage them to play the objective. (Suiciding will still subtract a point from the player's personal score, to prevent exploitation)


                  Content/Mutator Support:
                  • The GameMode, should now support custom weapons. (Either existing on the map, or added via mutators)


                  Visuals:
                  • The particle system which indicates how many skulls a player is carrying, is no longer visible to the owner, so the player's view is no longer obstructed by it.



                  Download links will be available as soon as I resolve my technical difficulties uploading stuff into rushbase.
                  EDIT: I added temporary download links from my HUB, until the situation with rushbase can get resolved.
                  Last edited by FrostbyteGR; 03-08-2016, 05:35 PM.
                  > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                  > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                  > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                  Comment


                    #24
                    In case you missed it, the GameMode has been showcased by Zaccubus during the UTea Forecast of the 03/23/2016.
                    You can view the full VoD here.

                    Many thanks to Zaccubus and to the participants of the stream, for taking the time to play and review it!
                    PS: Excuse my bad english, as it's not my native language. Some presentation errors were made and my train of thought was lost many times in the process, as I was trying to play and explain at the same time.
                    > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                    > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                    > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Avarice v1.4 Changelog:

                      General:
                      • The GameMode is now compatible with 4.12-based builds.
                      • Code improvements for better readability and compactness of the Blueprint.


                      Audio:
                      • Added attenuation settings to the sounds for the pickup and deposit of skulls, so they can no longer be heard across the map. Please give me your feedback on the current radius.



                      Rushbase appears to be down at the moment, I will supply temporary download links from my HUB, until the situation gets addressed.
                      > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                      > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                      > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Thanks. I added to hub, it ran for a while, then crashed. Will monitor and see if anyone else runs into issue (to confirm it's not just my user error) and proceed from there.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I need step-by-step what you did, in order to reproduce the crash.
                          The launch arguments that you used and a crash log would be also appreciated.
                          > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                          > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                          > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Hi!

                            I felt like trying something else tonight and gave it a shot with some friends. After a while ppl joined and the sheer carnage around a number of skulls is just hilarious! Thought u should know .
                            Three things though. First, just about every instance crashed (on PHX hub, sorry Big_Deal); some within the first few minutes of the first map (Deck), sometimes on the third map (Chill), with ASDF and Mimic running fine. Also, the rules aren't explained anywhere I think between starting the gamemode or selecting an existing game, so I had to explain everything every time someone new joined. Finally, the delivery of skulls seems to require too much precision. In aforementioned carnage it hard to see whether you either picked up skulls and delivered them on the tiny spots. (the skulls themselves could be a bit more visible too I guess?).

                            Keep up the good work

                            Skandalouz.
                            Last edited by skandalouz; 06-29-2016, 09:37 PM.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Thanks for your feedback, glad to know that you guys were having fun with it!

                              About the things you mentioned:
                              1. From the 4.11 build and onwards, there are occurences a few runtime crashes (the most promiment being in FreezeTag) which I am aware of, but totally uncertain as to what exactly causes them. From what you said (for Avarice in specific) there's a high chance for them to be tied to something map-specific. For the time being, I'm desperately trying to find either Frost or RZE to pass the blueprints to, and have the dev team investigate why and where those crashes are happening. I will also try to investigate a little more, once I find the time to do so. If I require more information, I will let you know.
                              2. One way to tackle this, would be to have to do a huge on-screen pop-up with text, explaining the rules of the game. I fear that this would quickly end up as something repetitive and annoying, so I would like to avoid it. There have been discussions in the past, to have a short video or tutorial that would be displayed the very first time that you fire up the gamemode, but this requires alot of work from Epic in order to provide the necessary infrastructure to do such a thing. It's clear that Epic has more urgent matters to address, and we might not see such a feature in the immediate future, but it's definitely something I will press on for. For the time being, we're in the talks with Zaccubus to make a few informative tutorials about the gamemodes. When they are ready, you can pass these along (or the link to the main thread, where the rules are also described), in order to avoid having to explain everything. Unfortunatelly, this is as much as we can do about this, sorry.
                              3. Yes, unfortunatelly the conduits in this mode are alot smaller; but there's a reason for that. Since they are replacing the weapon bases, I wanted to have a diameter that's equal to that of the weapon base model. I do this in order to avoid having them clip-through or obscure any ammunition pickups, that a map author may have placed, in close proximity to the weapon pickups. The collision capsule, that's responsible for registering the deposit of skulls, is shaped tightly around the scale of the conduit so that it doesn't feel weird or deceptive. I can totally play around with having a bigger collision capsule, and we can test it out, if it yields better gameplay. I have noted this in my to-do list.
                              > FreezeTag [Blueprint]
                              > Reimagining of Greed [BluePrint]
                              > Avarice, a DM-variant of Greed [BluePrint]

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Glad to hear you're on top of things. If you don't mind me making suggestions:

                                2. I know LTS has a few lines (I think) when you create a game, so you could see what it's about. Maybe that's an option?
                                3. If I'm not mistaking, the only cue you dropped of skulls if the ringing sound? Perhaps a message right above the crosshair might help? (where usually the 'You killed xx' etc is). So you could walk a bit more blindly over the spot.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X