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    Overtime

    Since I created the Respawner Mutator for UT3, it made me wonder a bit about overtime in general. I always felt that the way it worked was inadequate, because if in CTF/BR neither team can cap the goal, the game extends forever and it gets boring. That happens a lot to me (try spectating a botmatch in UT2003/4 BR-IceFields, and you'll see nobody ever scoring unless extremely lucky). In deathmatch, overtime means "one more kill and the game is done", which is much more reasonable.

    So what about adopting the respawner idea in most gametypes? If the time is over and it's a tie, then the match becomes last team standing, nobody can respawn once dead (but they get to spectate). That means the match will definitely end, and fast. And this can be adapted to pretty much any gametype (except Assault which doesn't need it to begin with, since it's objective-based, and obviously deathmatch).

    I also find the whole "disabling enemy respawner on victory" to be satisfying in general, actually. On one hand, it's fun for the winning team as they can finish off the opposition permanently. On the other hand, the losing team still gets a chance, even if slim, to make a comeback by disabling the enemy respawner as well, then eliminating the opposition on their own.

    An alternative would be to simply introduce a "draw game" result where neither team wins. But, well, I don't think that's as exciting, and not very useful in ladders where you want a winner one way or another.
    Unreal Tournament 4 eXpanded MultiPlayer (UT4XMP) efforts
    My website, listing all my Unreal series mods and mutators

    #2
    Regarding overtime: I think that "last man standing at time up idea" should be called "sudden death" instead of "overtime". Overtime is the catch-all term for the time running out in a match, allowing the game to progress until one team/player scores a point/no longer ties.

    Regarding what could be done about overtime: Making it sudden death(i.e. no respawns) by default, and keeping the classic overtime as a server option for those who want it can solve most or all issues with stalemates.

    Still, "no contests" and "draw match" should be implemented in the core game if overtime/sudden death/last man standing fail to end in a victory for one player or team. An example: a UT99 Last Man Standing match where there's only two combatants with one life each, one gets a redeemer, fires it and they both get caught in the blast. Vanilla UT99 didn't have a "draw game" condition, so the match had to manually be forfeited by the player due to a developer oversight.

    Regarding the respawner mutator: It makes more sense in UT3(especially compared to the way UT3 justified the matches) because of the backstory, but it doesn't make much sense in the tournament setting. To be fair, the way UT3 used respawners to justify the gameplay barely makes any sense in the role it plays in the setting.

    Ignoring the impacts on game design and balance for a second, I very much like the idea for UT3, but I'd prefer an explanation for it's usage in the tourney setting.
    Last edited by Cyrus the Guy; 05-31-2014, 06:37 PM.
    Fan of arena shooters since 2002. Owns Unreals 1 & 2, Tournaments 1999, 2004 & UT3. Also owns both Championship games and the PS2 Tournament.
    http://imageshack.com/a/img844/2197/nho3.png

    Comment


      #3
      Yea, sure, sudden death sounds about the right term. I remember that term from Worms Armageddon (though there it also lowered everyone's HP to 1, since it was LMS to begin with).

      Hah, didn't know about that bit in UT1

      As for respawner justification in a tournament setting, it's pretty simple. The hosts give the losing team one last chance to come back; that's good for the tournament ratings, because whenever someone manages to pull that off, viewers are on the edge of their seats.
      Unreal Tournament 4 eXpanded MultiPlayer (UT4XMP) efforts
      My website, listing all my Unreal series mods and mutators

      Comment


        #4
        Competitive players won't go for it easily, but it might make a nice pub server mutator

        Some public CTF servers for example can go on for a long time on tight maps, especially since people like to make 32 man pubs with maps designed for no more than 12 people lol

        In competitive play teams will just turtle any map they aren't so good on then try to win in sudden death

        I had the idea(for competitive CTF play) of removing 1 player from each team every 2 mins starting with the first person to die

        So that it's 5v4, then after 2 mins they switch and the other team needs to play 5v4

        It's a much less intrusive idea but i doubt competitive play would allow even that

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
          Since I created the Respawner Mutator for UT3, it made me wonder a bit about overtime in general. I always felt that the way it worked was inadequate, because if in CTF/BR neither team can cap the goal, the game extends forever and it gets boring. That happens a lot to me (try spectating a botmatch in UT2003/4 BR-IceFields, and you'll see nobody ever scoring unless extremely lucky). In deathmatch, overtime means "one more kill and the game is done", which is much more reasonable.

          So what about adopting the respawner idea in most gametypes? If the time is over and it's a tie, then the match becomes last team standing, nobody can respawn once dead (but they get to spectate). That means the match will definitely end, and fast. And this can be adapted to pretty much any gametype (except Assault which doesn't need it to begin with, since it's objective-based, and obviously deathmatch).

          I also find the whole "disabling enemy respawner on victory" to be satisfying in general, actually. On one hand, it's fun for the winning team as they can finish off the opposition permanently. On the other hand, the losing team still gets a chance, even if slim, to make a comeback by disabling the enemy respawner as well, then eliminating the opposition on their own.

          An alternative would be to simply introduce a "draw game" result where neither team wins. But, well, I don't think that's as exciting, and not very useful in ladders where you want a winner one way or another.
          Actually, I enjoyed the 4h overtime match on vCTF-Suspense in UT3.
          But having this optional would surely be nice anyway for the competitive players or if you don't want a long overtime for once.
          S l y .

          Comment


            #6
            Why not make it fairer then and make people go offense? Like everybody without the flat loses health? Or your entire team loses health until a teammate grabs the other team flag. Or perhaps the flag room becomes a poisonous for team damage. Lots of ideas, but last man standing? Then it's no longer ctf, it's tam

            Comment


              #7
              While we haven't implemented team game types yet, I am trying something new with Overtime. Feel free to try it out

              Comment


                #8
                Now as I was saying before the forums rudely deleted my posts...



                This is what happens when the timer expires and points are still up for dispute on the field, personally I dont like the fixed timer because it can lead to situations like this which would upset spectators as well. I know I most likely would have capped these points and I think the point spread was large enough that even if the enemy capped them I still would have won but if play had continued into some kind of overtime until this red skull had either dissapeared or been capped would have more interesting and more fun all around. The only time I see strict enforcement of game time working is in professional leagues
                Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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