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TAM / FREON / 3SPN and how can it be part of Unreal Tournament!

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    Yep, they said multiple times they want to have/they are working on DM, TDM and CTF plus some kind of Duel game mode.

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      Epic has never made this style of game, and though I might be curious to see what they do with it, I'm not sure why they would start now. The whole premise of this game is to be community developed. It stands to reason game types that have always been community developed will continue to be as such.
      Originally posted by Mysterial
      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

      Comment


        I think TAM or Freon with some modifications would have more success as the "esports mode" than what Epic is currently trying with CTF. It already has the the round resets to allow for pauses and has the comebacks of 1vs3 etc.

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          I would like to see TAM or BTA as part of the Game. We played it in UT2k4 and in UT3 and still do run server with it and play it.

          Comment


            I actually just saw this thread and even though it seems the debate has cooled down a bit i'm gonna throw some more **** at the fan. I was originally a iCTF player and the first ever UT i played was 2k4. The very first game type I played was DM and needless to say, I got owned like most who are new to ANY game; like most new people do, I tried other game types until I found something both challenging and fun. At the time, that was iCTF(i played on demo servers till i needed more than Face and BoD), AND I HAD A FREAKING BLAST! The fact that people say TAM killed UT isn't true even though you could make some strong arguments. As i got better and better at UT, i also started to expand my play into other game types. ONS, DM,TDM, iDM, iTDM, Assault,...etc. I came to realize the best players either started from the original UT99, or they were DM/TDM players. This led to me not only going back to play the original UT and UT2003, but also TDM. TDM/DM was fun but the skill difference was just to high. Coming from a hitscan background I was decent with lg and shock but my movement, tactics, & weapon choice were all awful. I played a few 1v1 and always got owned. Even when i was able to predict where people were, and get weapons I was still getting owned in 1v1's. This is because a lot of beginners never get to gain experience or even use most weaps in a TDM or DM match before they get killed. TAM changed that. You had to aim well, move well, be able to predict what your opponent would do(without relying on what weapon or powerup your opponent was going for etc..) and most importantly, HAVE FUN! After playing TAM, i went back and played other game types, and I was able to more or less hold my own because of my experience from TAM. Each of the core game types have their know-hows that players gain through experience, but TAM gave everyone who was new to UT in general a crash course on the building blocks of the game, which is essentially aim, movement, and mental tactics. Everything else comes from experience. Things like timing or map control in DM/TDM, Vehicles/node use in ONS, Passing or shooting in BR, etc.. came from experience. TAM has its up and down-side, but accept it for what it is. CoD has the gun game, and we have TAM. My point is, its a quick way to get experience with weapons, weapon combinations, situational weapon choice, and so on. IMO it accomplished just that!

            Comment


              Originally posted by Poozer.* View Post
              I actually just saw this thread and even though it seems the debate has cooled down a bit i'm gonna throw some more **** at the fan. I was originally a iCTF player and the first ever UT i played was 2k4. The very first game type I played was DM and needless to say, I got owned like most who are new to ANY game; like most new people do, I tried other game types until I found something both challenging and fun. At the time, that was iCTF(i played on demo servers till i needed more than Face and BoD), AND I HAD A FREAKING BLAST! The fact that people say TAM killed UT isn't true even though you could make some strong arguments. As i got better and better at UT, i also started to expand my play into other game types. ONS, DM,TDM, iDM, iTDM, Assault,...etc. I came to realize the best players either started from the original UT99, or they were DM/TDM players. This led to me not only going back to play the original UT and UT2003, but also TDM. TDM/DM was fun but the skill difference was just to high. Coming from a hitscan background I was decent with lg and shock but my movement, tactics, & weapon choice were all awful. I played a few 1v1 and always got owned. Even when i was able to predict where people were, and get weapons I was still getting owned in 1v1's. This is because a lot of beginners never get to gain experience or even use most weaps in a TDM or DM match before they get killed. TAM changed that. You had to aim well, move well, be able to predict what your opponent would do(without relying on what weapon or powerup your opponent was going for etc..) and most importantly, HAVE FUN! After playing TAM, i went back and played other game types, and I was able to more or less hold my own because of my experience from TAM. Each of the core game types have their know-hows that players gain through experience, but TAM gave everyone who was new to UT in general a crash course on the building blocks of the game, which is essentially aim, movement, and mental tactics. Everything else comes from experience. Things like timing or map control in DM/TDM, Vehicles/node use in ONS, Passing or shooting in BR, etc.. came from experience. TAM has its up and down-side, but accept it for what it is. CoD has the gun game, and we have TAM. My point is, its a quick way to get experience with weapons, weapon combinations, situational weapon choice, and so on. IMO it accomplished just that!
              +1.
              TAM by the way is the only reason UT2k4 is still alive.

              With less overall players the other gamemodes fail.
              You have to wait until an opponent joins into a 1on1 server or you need to setup a 1on1. On Public DM servers its just a spam mess
              where people hunt for the weapons and die in the course or are easy frags. Its no fun at all because seldom only good players are on such servers.

              For people who just like to fight on a high level 2k4 TAM is the only option. All the bad players die quickly each round and in the end good players clash on each other. Its perfect for all player skill levels.
              Its instant fun and it is very competetive not casual. All comes down to movement, aim, prediction, mind game, map knowledge, weapon knowledge and micro tactics.

              Normal DM was just awful, timing is the least interesting thing in a competetive game. Its actually learning a course and looking at the clock.
              If you do that and are good at it all other skills become less important because the arsenal and health wins.
              How is that competetive?
              Of course some are better at timing than others, but some are also better at drinking beer very fast than others..

              For me skill has nothing todo with memorize map courses and times. Its about who is stronger in an equal fight.

              Comment


                True words from you both. We did play other gametypes too, but to 80% TAM/BTA. It is and was the best for me and my mates.

                Comment


                  I have read many times on these forums that UT has to attract a huge base of players in order to become a heavyweight on the competitive scene, and I believe it's true.

                  I think many of those who are claiming that TAM is very noob-friendly and might kill the other game types, even if they could be right about it, forget about the main point : noob-friendly IS needed for the future of the game! You cannot have a successful game if the player base is too low.


                  I personally played 90% instagib (TDM, CTF, DOM, even BR) and the rest was TAM, because I have always felt that item-hunting is not fun at all.
                  I understand why people like it of course, it is just not for me


                  So maybe the problem is not about TAM, but about the lack of attractiveness of the other gametypes, those considered "pro"? (attractiveness for the noobs or people only willing to have fun, at least)
                  After all, progamers and wannabe progamers will always only represent a very tiny portion of the whole player base!! So maybe UT should focus on attracting players, not scaring them away with only the most demanding gametypes.
                  And if you have millions and millions of players, don't worry, you'll get your ultra high skilled competitive scene

                  Comment


                    There will be a TAM mode at some point, no doubt about that. However, it's important to realize that TAM existed in some form or another in every UT game and only in 2k4 was it insanely popular. Looking at the reasons why that was the case is an important step in learning what about TAM specifically made it so popular.
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                    Comment


                      TAM distanced itself more with ammo limits, challenge mode, and group spawning.

                      There will certainly be a CA/RA clone of sorts. No stopping that.
                      Originally posted by Mysterial
                      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                      Comment


                        I personally prefer RA over TAM any day. Lets face it, it's pretty much the same thing aside from the stupid armor handicap that TAM has/had. The reason why RA never took off in later games is probably because RA requires custom maps because of rocket jumping. I would love to see RA make a real return as a real mod in UT4.

                        Comment


                          No self damage fundamentally skews weapon balance. It's fun, and I loved RA when I first played it, but it lacked repeat value for me.

                          I really enjoyed the negative feedback loop. If I ever get bored in a mismatch, I handicap myself in some way anyways. The nice thing about the game doing it for me, is that everyone knows it's happening.
                          Originally posted by Mysterial
                          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                          Comment


                            Never played TAM but it sounds pretty cool. I played freezetag on a COD server and found it to be a funtastic gametype a would love to play this in the UT universe.

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                              Like it has been said in this thread several times : TAM is great for beginners (even though it takes longer to improve when playing TAM because you do lose a lot of time when you are dead, and its slow), its really fun in ut2004 for public games. I would add it as a gametype, because so much players enjoy it. But indeed, it doesnt work as well as TDM for competition. And I think it wont fit ut4 movement and weapons, because you can kill soemone too fast, but I hope im wrong.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by boNz View Post
                                Like it has been said in this thread several times : TAM is great for beginners (even though it takes longer to improve when playing TAM because you do lose a lot of time when you are dead, and its slow), its really fun in ut2004 for public games. I would add it as a gametype, because so much players enjoy it. But indeed, it doesnt work as well as TDM for competition. And I think it wont fit ut4 movement and weapons, because you can kill soemone too fast, but I hope im wrong.
                                You are wrong and i must smile when i read it is for beginners...

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