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TAM / FREON / 3SPN and how can it be part of Unreal Tournament!

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    #46
    Originally posted by void View Post
    TAM is bad because it killed the other game modes? No, that means people prefer it. The fact that TAM/Freon are the last game modes alive means something.
    No it doesn't. I only ever play TAM because the more enjoyable gametypes are dead, and I don't want to completely drop UT.

    I agree that TAM didn't kill the other gametypes, and just capitalized on their slow decline ... but even if arguments based on that idea are irrelevant, I still agree with DarkPulse:

    Originally posted by Dark Pulse View Post
    TAM's problem was basically that while it evened out the balance, it was absolutely droll as hell to play. It removed all parts about getting your weapons, ammo, and so on. I'd be fine with including it as a mod, but as a stock gametype? Please no. Let's keep this universally appealing, not appealing to a certain niche.
    Last edited by gzv; 05-09-2014, 07:54 PM.

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      #47
      TAM can be an external mutator, or hell, even its own gametype. But keep it out of the competitive scene. You won't find a single high level competitive game where everything is just handed to you.

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        #48
        Originally posted by Feuergeist View Post
        TAM can be an external mutator, or hell, even its own gametype. But keep it out of the competitive scene. You won't find a single high level competitive game where everything is just handed to you.
        How about basketball? You don't start a basketball match by trying to find (the only) sneakers on the field

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          #49
          Freon was my number one favorite game type in UT2k4. I would love to see it be officially included in UT4.
          I went by B0T0X in UT2k4, BoboTheBrave in UT3. If you remember me, send me a PM!

          Remember? I was the one running backward with the flag!

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            #50
            Originally posted by void View Post
            How about basketball? You don't start a basketball match by trying to find (the only) sneakers on the field
            It's a silly analogy in general, but you start a basketball match with a fight over the ball. ; )

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              #51
              10 years later and a lot of people still play UT2K4 because of TAM/FREON, myself included. I think everyone is in agreement that TDM, CTF and 1vs1 DM are THE competitive game types. The main purpose of TAM was to give the "n00bs" a fighting chance. I played some competitive 1v1's back in the hey day but I was definitely no where near the elite level. I believe my one and only meeting with Stryfe was to the tune of 28 to -1. That being said, did it turn me off DM or TDM? No. But over the years as the game became cheaper and established veterans were destroying any new players that bought the game for cheap, is there really any surprise that a mod like TAM or Freon became the sole torch carrier for UT2K4? It gave new players to the game a fighting chance because, let's all be honest here, UT2K4 has a pretty steep learning curve for new players.
              Do I believe TAM should be bundled in the final product as an official gametype? Yes. Should it be considered as part of the competitive scene? Probably not. There is just so much more to a competitive 1v1 DM or TDM match than there ever could be in a 1v1 or team TAM match.
              And this is coming from one of the founders of the clan that brought you TAM.

              =A!M=|<r@$cHëR

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                #52
                Originally posted by Krascher View Post
                10 years later and a lot of people still play UT2K4 because of TAM/FREON, myself included. I think everyone is in agreement that TDM, CTF and 1vs1 DM are THE competitive game types. The main purpose of TAM was to give the "n00bs" a fighting chance. I played some competitive 1v1's back in the hey day but I was definitely no where near the elite level. I believe my one and only meeting with Stryfe was to the tune of 28 to -1. That being said, did it turn me off DM or TDM? No. But over the years as the game became cheaper and established veterans were destroying any new players that bought the game for cheap, is there really any surprise that a mod like TAM or Freon became the sole torch carrier for UT2K4? It gave new players to the game a fighting chance because, let's all be honest here, UT2K4 has a pretty steep learning curve for new players.
                Do I believe TAM should be bundled in the final product as an official gametype? Yes. Should it be considered as part of the competitive scene? Probably not. There is just so much more to a competitive 1v1 DM or TDM match than there ever could be in a 1v1 or team TAM match.
                And this is coming from one of the founders of the clan that brought you TAM.

                =A!M=|<r@$cHëR
                Hatetells incoming in 4... 3... 2...

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                  #53
                  TAM was a solution to a problem that was inherent to the stock game types, namely DM/TDM. If the new stock game types lack those problems, TAM won't be necessary.

                  The ability to lock a map down because of the 27.5 second weapon respawn in DM made it ridiculous. Not because you shouldn't have to fight for a weapon if you're down, but because usually one weapon wasn't enough. It just didn't fit the weapon design well. Most of the weapons were individually toned down a bit to account for how fast you could switch between them. The fact that you could barrage a target with 3 different weapons in 3 seconds could make for some very lethal assaults. So shorter weapon switch times meant that they had to nerf the weapons a bit so as to control over all DPS.

                  TAM wasn't the only alternative. A couple IG game types were also massively popular because you didn't have to manage inventory. TAM just had the additional appeal of being able to do highlight reel weapon combinations. IG BR was a blast though, and I hate IG.

                  TDM just needs a less controllable weapon respawn time, with less ammo included in the pickups to balance, diversifying your ammo sources, and putting more value on the ammo pickups, which are typically more plentiful, and thus a bit more difficult to control. It also needs the fruits of that control to be less dominant. A full stack should involve less total HP, or tic down to something more regulated.

                  Make DM more about fragging, and you won't need a game type that is more about fragging than DM.
                  Originally posted by Mysterial
                  An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by Krascher View Post
                    10 years later and a lot of people still play UT2K4 because of TAM/FREON, myself included. I think everyone is in agreement that TDM, CTF and 1vs1 DM are THE competitive game types. The main purpose of TAM was to give the "n00bs" a fighting chance. I played some competitive 1v1's back in the hey day but I was definitely no where near the elite level. I believe my one and only meeting with Stryfe was to the tune of 28 to -1. That being said, did it turn me off DM or TDM? No. But over the years as the game became cheaper and established veterans were destroying any new players that bought the game for cheap, is there really any surprise that a mod like TAM or Freon became the sole torch carrier for UT2K4? It gave new players to the game a fighting chance because, let's all be honest here, UT2K4 has a pretty steep learning curve for new players.
                    Do I believe TAM should be bundled in the final product as an official gametype? Yes. Should it be considered as part of the competitive scene? Probably not. There is just so much more to a competitive 1v1 DM or TDM match than there ever could be in a 1v1 or team TAM match.
                    And this is coming from one of the founders of the clan that brought you TAM.

                    =A!M=|<r@$cHëR

                    Oh god no.....TAM killed the other gametypes.

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                      #55
                      Tam is pure hitscan game in ut2004, lower ping guys with some skill will win easly over other team spamming shock rifle and lg cause maps are to much open and wide, i find freon more fun to play.
                      It would be great to actually implement both mods, with alot of weapon balance. And different maps.

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                        #56
                        tam DID kill the other gametypes.. lots the tam players even admit they don't really like it or at the very least prefer something else... they just play it because they have no choice its either tam or uninstall 2k4.. they take what they can get.

                        People saying how all that's left in 2k4 is tam and that should tell you something... insinuating that means tam is the best ... I don't think so... Here's my theory behind that... the OTHER game types were on servers being admined by ban happy trigger happy idiots who killed their own community so people stopped playing on their servers.. people who ran tam servers just happened to be more competent people... IT wasn't really the game type being the reason why tam has the most people... The PEOPLE behind the servers is the reason

                        p.s. and how is Tam more Noob friendly as some people are saying? Noobs Want to respond instantly... how the hell are they supposed to practice and get better at the game if they are just sitting n waiting to respawn 75% of the time instead of actually playing?
                        Last edited by kronx; 05-10-2014, 05:03 AM.

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                          #57
                          Nice to see a bunch of old friends here. Since i spent a bazillion hours playing UT2k4 i feel the need to say my thing on this matter.
                          Yes, TAM is a hitscan gametype, and yes in the beggining of a match a lot of ppl do some nasty spam (like granade spam) witch ****** me off. Sometimes it happens that you die first and have to spectate for qoute some time.

                          Some ppl hate it, others love it. Me, i prefer it these days.I played it all, ONS, DM, TDM,TAM, instagib, CTF, iCTF you name it. And i found that from all the cups i played the most enjoyable where the TAM ones. The most memorable matches where some of the TAM matches. And standing there alone, with all your team dead vs 3-5 oponents, and scoring a Dark Horse is just awesome. Also, i found ppl playing TAM to be much more relaxed and friendlier than on DM.

                          Is it a noob/new player friendly gametype? Hell NO. New player vs veteran, both 200hp and all weapons, please. Just yesterday i saw a dude do 0/17. I poped him at least 10x in the first 10 sec of the round with 3xlg. He spent 95% of time spectating.
                          Skill-less gametype? Hell NO. Aim, weapon choice/strategy, movement, map routs, teamplay, predictions, ....

                          I would love to see TAM in the new game right from the start, thou i would probably spend more time on other gametypes. Sometimes i just dont feel like timing powerups and weapons, or getting into a crowded free for all DM.
                          Last edited by Frosty^; 05-10-2014, 08:37 AM.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by Dark Pulse View Post
                            Hatetells incoming in 4... 3... 2...
                            LOL! Surprisingly it hasn't happened yet. I originally was going to post "haters gonna hate" but figured that was going to be a moot point anyway so I deleted it (why feed the trolls?).

                            And just so we're all clear here. I never said TAM was the best. I personally always favoured FFA DM with some 1v1 and TDM thrown in. Unfortunately FFA DM died off pretty quick...at least on servers that played more than one map (Rankin).

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by kronx View Post
                              p.s. and how is Tam more Noob friendly as some people are saying? Noobs Want to respond instantly... how the hell are they supposed to practice and get better at the game if they are just sitting n waiting to respawn 75% of the time instead of actually playing?
                              Maybe you should explain how the other gametypes are more noob friendly compared to TAM. The only other gametype that is very noob friendly is Onslaught due to the vehicles.

                              Consider this: say you have beginners vs beginners. If all they play is DM / TDM, they would only learn how to mindlessly spam the weapon locations and the 100 shield pit.

                              In TAM, they would start with all weapons and the game is no longer about spamming the weapon locations or 100 shield pit.

                              Who would win in either a DM or TAM game? A beginner who has played only DM / TDM for 2 months, or a beginner who has played 1 month of DM / TDM and 1 month of TAM?

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                                #60
                                OH BOY AN ARGUMENT ON THE INTERNET! MY FAVORITE! KEKEKE!

                                Quakelive had an arena gametype from day 1, it didn't kill anything except slowpokes who can't strafe jump lol. IMHO a new UT should have one too. It's fun. <3 DM, <3 TAM. In fact I <3 everything about UT. Can't we all just get along? Play what you want, how you want. Camping? yep. Spamming? yep. Map control? yep. "OP" weapons? yep. Arguing about the 1337est gametype? yep. Bring it all back.

                                Also: STRONK YOU! HOBOX7
                                Last edited by Zen3y3; 05-10-2014, 10:56 AM.

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