Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

XMP Gametype mod.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • replied
    My repository is now updated to have both Saiboat's gametype and my previous Multi CTF attempt:
    https://github.com/GreatEmerald/UT4XMPGameMode

    One thing I thought about is how to make use of some of the things Epic are doing for use in XMP. Like the Showdown stuff that they showed last stream and such. The minimap thing would of course be useful for ONS, and to some extent XMP as well (radar!), although probably the freelook/jump to other point is more useful for spawning. The DM spawning system is a bit like that, although from what I saw it's also less flexible than it should be (only two options).

    In Experimental Gametype the original Deploy Point system is used, but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to use proper PlayerStarts instead. For one thing, bots are aware of how to use those, and improvements that Epic make would directly benefit the project too. But, of course, they need to be hackable; so I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to make hackable objects as simply a sort of dispatchers. Door hacking panels already work like that: they are assigned a door, and they change the door's owner. The same should be possible to do with PlayerStarts as well. Which would then also allow doing some fancy things, like having the hack panel mounted on a wall, or in a side room from where players actually spawn, or one that when hacked allows spawning in different parts of the map altogether, or that gives spawn points as well as control of a door at the same time. That would add some interesting tactical depth, I believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Aksen View Post
    Is this the right subforum? I am so excited about today's Open Unreal Tournament announcement, and I wanted to share what I will be working on, in case anyone else is interested.


    Some friends and I from the old XMP community have been kicking around prototypes for an XMP reboot for years now. Finally, FINALLY, we have a solid path to that goal.

    For those who haven't played XMP, it was the multiplayer component of Unreal 2. I suppose it can be seen as the impetus for the Onslaught gamemode - they do share a number of similarities (team bases with a core objective, vehicles, large open maps). We plan to streamline and combine many of the extra noise, to make the game more newbie-friendly than XMP while maintaining the tactical challenge. Some possibly unique components would include:

    Gameplay
    • 4-flag capture the flag. Both teams start with 2 flags, goal is to have all four captured at once.
    • Generators (This was in the original game, but we have been discussing ways to cut it. Managing a team energy pool can be a nightmare when you're playing with randoms.)
    • Deploy points - You capture these throughout the map, and can then choose which one you respawn from.
    • "Hacking" - this was how you captured deploy points, doors (so they would only open for your team), and generators. We will probably do away with this, and instead allow players to capture areas by standing near them - standard Domination style.
    • Points system - Players earn points by performing actions. A Kill is 100 pts, capturing a supply depot is 225 pts, and so on. Headshots multiply by 1.5 = 150 pts for a kill. Defending an area is also a 1.5x bonus... getting a headshot while defending will give you 100*1.5*1.5 = 225 pts. These points can be spent on deployable turrets etc.



    Movement
    • Sprinting
    • jumpjets (timed release of vertical thrust - it's not instantaneous)
    • Zero friction on slopes
    • Wall jumping



    Character
    • XMP had three classes. We have been talking about using two bodytypes (heavy and light), and two or three loadouts. We want to give players choice but not too many choices.
    • Deployable turrets and supplies - In XMP these abilities would drain your team's energy pool. We are discussing other ideas for how to limit the number of deployables players can put down. One idea we have is purchasing them at kiosks during gameplay, using points they have earned.
    Man, I love where this game is going with gametypes now!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    And now I have a base for the gametype: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...CTF-(XMP-like)

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    All right, I got some initial values for XMP movement, would be nice is someone tested and especially suggested formulas and values: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...I-XMP-movement

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Aww, too bad. Well, I'll try to make something of my own. Maybe start a WIP thread, too.

    Right now for a start I'm thinking of a Deploy Point. Some of the ideas would be useful as a standalone mod, or even in the base game: being able to look at the area you'll spawn in and/or choose where you spawn is very important. It would potentially even be an alternative to spawn protection.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Hey Emerald, I stopped working on this because my CPU was too slow to productively code with Visual Studio (IntelliSense etc.) and because the full mod / gametype support is still really limited AFAIK.
    Waiting for further updates for modding support. I tried to make a movement mutator then but couldn't because after each line of code I have to wait like 30 seconds to wait for error checking and the same goes for code completion etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    So, Saiboat, did you manage to start anything yet? Given that I just got a UE4 sub, I might as well start working towards this goal. (And while at it, one needs to be mindful of these: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...ution-licenses )

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I haven't put that many hours into it (as by the time I discovered it the scene had already dwindled), but anything that brings a touch of Unreal II to the surface is awesome (and XMP is amazingly strategic to boot).

    Nice to hear that you're interested as well



    "Negative. Enemy in our base!"



    XMP isn't that slow, and there's plenty of action. It just may seem that if servers have few players. And it's tactical so you need to reason out whether you want to grab the enemy artifact, hack things or put deployables, and also where.



    Why wouldn't one keep the generators? They're a core mechanic and have always been.

    As for the tier system... That's already handled by things that are not generators. What you're talking about here is an outpost with a deploy point and with hackable doors. To get to it you first have to hack the door, then the deploy point.

    I'd rather explore the alpha idea of making it a more managed budget system with research and production. Also with the idea of pickups/powerups, they are easily available and can bring interesting dynamics into the game.



    As a stepping stone, perhaps. But not in the long run. Classes like in U2XMP are a good idea. Overall the movement must be like in U2XMP or it won't feel right. The class balance there is pretty good as well (as long as Gunners can't use concussion grenades).

    Note that UT4 will most likely have deployables already (it worked well in UT3), so no need to lock down weapons like that. However, also the weapons there are not balanced well enough.

    U2XMP is nice in that all classes have specialised weapons. One weapon is good against vehicles, one weapon is good at range, one weapon is good at close range (the degree varies).

    Gunners have the Shark which is good against vehicles (primary) and at range (alt), and incendiary grenades + Vulcan that are perfect at close range (which is just what's needed: gunners defend, bases are made so you can't enter them with vehicles, gunners specialise in close quarters combat). And the also have the tricky deployable types and refill capabilities, so they can spend time setting traps in bases. They're slow but have a lot of endurance.

    Techs have EMP grenades that are good against vehicles, the Duster that's OK at range, and the Crowd Pleaser + toxic grenades that are good at close-mid range. The specialisation is mostly on midrange, which is good since they have to traverse open space but hack generators in closed spaces. They hack fast, and generally are in midfield. Movement speed and endurance is average, and they put the most sophisticated and energy-draining deployables.

    Rangers have the Shock Lance that's good against vehicles, the Sniper that's perfect at range, the Pistol that's good at mid-long range, and frag grenades that are good at close range. Specialisation on long range, which means they can pick off targets while going through the open area separating the bases (which is where the most time is spent). Speed is fast so best for artifact running, but low endurance to compensate.

    Neither of the three are useless when out of their element, but they do excel at those particular tasks, and it shows.

    Your suggestions do follow the same general pattern but due to things not being adapted, also have flaws. Your Techs have no good anti-vehicle capability, for instance.


    In general I would opt for simply remaking U2XMP at first. I don't think everyone will ever unanimously agree about any changes. But mods can be made for that once it's done, and then based on whether they work well or not they can be integrated.

    As a roadmap, I'd focus first and foremost on the movement mechanics: sprint and jetpacks. I recall regular UT games having the XMP movement mod as a separate mutator, so the same can be done in UT4. That's also the first thing that will get stabilised in UT4 (already pretty stable, I'd say). Next would be the gametype, based on (V)CTF, first adding deploy points, then generators. Then classes and weapons. And finish off with vehicles.
    I couldn't agree with you more!!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    oh there are a couple of other vids. I've been recording them periodically:



    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    First off, I will confuse this thread by being the second guy nicked vertigoo. I've been thinking of doing some kind of xmpish mod as well. I have been making art:

    At this point have mostly been just playing around with the vibe of the area and doing some testing on creating my terrian in zbrush. So far little thought has gone into the actual play-ability. It is all very much still a wip. cheers
    -[pet]skunk

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I don't see it being included in the final UT4 game. Maybe a movement mutator like Aksen did for UT3, but not generators etc. If that would be the case, all other mods like Jailbreak etc. would want to be on there aswell, but I think this is why there will be a market place to release stuff like this.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Thinking about it being included as a gametype is way too early at this point. We need VCTF support first. And then it can evolve organically from the mod – scaling it down to core UT is easier than matching it with U2XMP, after all.

    Starting with movement mods and whatnot sounds like the best way to go in either case, as the jetpack concept can be very useful in ONS and VCTF just as well. Showing that to Epic can persuade them to include it in the core game, for instance.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    If you are going for a mod, changing up movement, weapons, vehicles etc. is fine, as it's a mod, not intended to be shipped with the game. I was thinking as integrating XMP into UT as an official gametype enhancing or replacing WAR or ONS. As an official gametype, you don't want to change the weapons, movement, vehicles and what not or else you end up having two separate games.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
    I put more hours into XMP than I am comfortable to admit.
    I haven't put that many hours into it (as by the time I discovered it the scene had already dwindled), but anything that brings a touch of Unreal II to the surface is awesome (and XMP is amazingly strategic to boot).

    Nice to hear that you're interested as well

    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
    "Get in the vehicle!"
    "Negative. Enemy in our base!"

    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
    XMP worked really well in U2 because it played to the game's tactical-shooter take on the Unreal Universe. XMP was slow paced compared to something like ONS, so you have to take in consideration how you will blend the XMP mentality with the fast-paced UT gameplay.
    XMP isn't that slow, and there's plenty of action. It just may seem that if servers have few players. And it's tactical so you need to reason out whether you want to grab the enemy artifact, hack things or put deployables, and also where.

    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
    KEEP THE GENERATORS. That was one thing that added magic to the XMP gameplay and set it apart from generic war games. Having a secondary goal besides just 'capture the X' really adds layers to the battles. Instead of treating the energy generated as a 'budget' with 'income' and 'expense', treat it like a tier system. Some things (like base spawns) don't need any generators to run, while outpost spawns need at least one generator. An outpost's defences need one more generator captured versus their spawns, so if outpost A needs 2 generators captures to unlock it's spawns, it will need 3 generators to unlock its defences.
    Why wouldn't one keep the generators? They're a core mechanic and have always been.

    As for the tier system... That's already handled by things that are not generators. What you're talking about here is an outpost with a deploy point and with hackable doors. To get to it you first have to hack the door, then the deploy point.

    I'd rather explore the alpha idea of making it a more managed budget system with research and production. Also with the idea of pickups/powerups, they are easily available and can bring interesting dynamics into the game.

    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
    'Classes' can simply be load outs. Instead of having weapon pickups in the maps, the 'classes' determine the weapons the player starts with. The class would also add MINOR adjustments to the base stats and movement. For example:

    Scout: starts with Enforcer, Shock rifle, with enough generators captured can get the Sniper as well. Perks: double jump. Disadvantage: 100 max HP and starts with no armour.

    Mechanic: starts with Link gun, Minigun, with enough generators captured also gets the Flak. Perks: Spawns with 50 armour, Link gun can repair and buff team deployed devices and vehicles. Disadvantage: hacking takes 50% longer.

    Tank: starts with Impact Hammer, Bio rifle, Rocket Launcher, with enough generators can get the Avril. Perks: spawns with 100 armour and can use Impact hammer to deal extra damage to enemy infrastructure. Disadvantages: 75% movement speed.

    XMP can just use the existing ONS vehicles, as they are already pretty team oriented...
    As a stepping stone, perhaps. But not in the long run. Classes like in U2XMP are a good idea. Overall the movement must be like in U2XMP or it won't feel right. The class balance there is pretty good as well (as long as Gunners can't use concussion grenades).

    Note that UT4 will most likely have deployables already (it worked well in UT3), so no need to lock down weapons like that. However, also the weapons there are not balanced well enough.

    U2XMP is nice in that all classes have specialised weapons. One weapon is good against vehicles, one weapon is good at range, one weapon is good at close range (the degree varies).

    Gunners have the Shark which is good against vehicles (primary) and at range (alt), and incendiary grenades + Vulcan that are perfect at close range (which is just what's needed: gunners defend, bases are made so you can't enter them with vehicles, gunners specialise in close quarters combat). And the also have the tricky deployable types and refill capabilities, so they can spend time setting traps in bases. They're slow but have a lot of endurance.

    Techs have EMP grenades that are good against vehicles, the Duster that's OK at range, and the Crowd Pleaser + toxic grenades that are good at close-mid range. The specialisation is mostly on midrange, which is good since they have to traverse open space but hack generators in closed spaces. They hack fast, and generally are in midfield. Movement speed and endurance is average, and they put the most sophisticated and energy-draining deployables.

    Rangers have the Shock Lance that's good against vehicles, the Sniper that's perfect at range, the Pistol that's good at mid-long range, and frag grenades that are good at close range. Specialisation on long range, which means they can pick off targets while going through the open area separating the bases (which is where the most time is spent). Speed is fast so best for artifact running, but low endurance to compensate.

    Neither of the three are useless when out of their element, but they do excel at those particular tasks, and it shows.

    Your suggestions do follow the same general pattern but due to things not being adapted, also have flaws. Your Techs have no good anti-vehicle capability, for instance.


    In general I would opt for simply remaking U2XMP at first. I don't think everyone will ever unanimously agree about any changes. But mods can be made for that once it's done, and then based on whether they work well or not they can be integrated.

    As a roadmap, I'd focus first and foremost on the movement mechanics: sprint and jetpacks. I recall regular UT games having the XMP movement mod as a separate mutator, so the same can be done in UT4. That's also the first thing that will get stabilised in UT4 (already pretty stable, I'd say). Next would be the gametype, based on (V)CTF, first adding deploy points, then generators. Then classes and weapons. And finish off with vehicles.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I put more hours into XMP than I am comfortable to admit.

    "Get in the vehicle!"

    But seriously... I have some things to bring up:

    XMP worked really well in U2 because it played to the game's tactical-shooter take on the Unreal Universe. XMP was slow paced compared to something like ONS, so you have to take in consideration how you will blend the XMP mentality with the fast-paced UT gameplay.


    KEEP THE GENERATORS. That was one thing that added magic to the XMP gameplay and set it apart from generic war games. Having a secondary goal besides just 'capture the X' really adds layers to the battles. Instead of treating the energy generated as a 'budget' with 'income' and 'expense', treat it like a tier system. Some things (like base spawns) don't need any generators to run, while outpost spawns need at least one generator. An outpost's defences need one more generator captured versus their spawns, so if outpost A needs 2 generators captures to unlock it's spawns, it will need 3 generators to unlock its defences.

    'Classes' can simply be load outs. Instead of having weapon pickups in the maps, the 'classes' determine the weapons the player starts with. The class would also add MINOR adjustments to the base stats and movement. For example:

    Scout: starts with Enforcer, Shock rifle, with enough generators captured can get the Sniper as well. Perks: double jump. Disadvantage: 100 max HP and starts with no armour.

    Mechanic: starts with Link gun, Minigun, with enough generators captured also gets the Flak. Perks: Spawns with 50 armour, Link gun can repair and buff team deployed devices and vehicles. Disadvantage: hacking takes 50% longer.

    Tank: starts with Impact Hammer, Bio rifle, Rocket Launcher, with enough generators can get the Avril. Perks: spawns with 100 armour and can use Impact hammer to deal extra damage to enemy infrastructure. Disadvantages: 75% movement speed.

    XMP can just use the existing ONS vehicles, as they are already pretty team oriented...

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by KazeoHin-TechAE; 10-16-2014, 07:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X