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    [PROTOTYPE] Duel GameMode

    Hi Guys,

    You may have recently noticed epic have implemented a Duel Game. The current rules of Duel Gamemode see's powerups available on maps, with each powerup having an expiry of 10 seconds, the TDM HUD also replaces the Deathmatch HUD.

    Looking at the recent stats of maps being played in duel (Deck16, NickTest, Lea) the only commonly played duel map which has a powerup is Deck16, this has an Amp. I've played a couple of games this evening using the Amp and it's surprising how well it flows, it certainly doesn't break gameplay. In fact, initial thoughts had been to perhaps increase the expire time to 15seconds, as it can expire pretty quickly, at least on deck!

    This thread is to review the Duel Gamemode and provide feedback on its current status. Guys, start using the powerups! All duel servers will be running the Duel gametype by default from now on.
    Last edited by chumb0; 09-29-2014, 06:51 PM.
    http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

    #2
    Powerups in the duel game mode? That's ridiculously stupid and nubbish.
    Last edited by Specter_; 09-29-2014, 11:35 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      rant...

      Originally posted by Specter_ View Post
      Powerups in the duel game mode? That's ridiculously stupid and nubbish.
      I'm probably going to regret this post after I get some sleep but seriously, if this is the kind of knee jerk reactive posts that are seeming to pop up on this forum to EVERYTHING then this is pretty sad indeed.
      Chumb0 was one of the duelers who have voiced opinions against powerups like amp in Duel but the point is as the current gamemode stands(as implemented by Epic) the power ups are there but only last a fraction of the time in normal game modes.
      All the OP is suggesting is to try it out and then post your thoughtful review of what you think. Geezus is that really so difficult!?!?!

      /rant
      MyArtstation
      @jayoplus

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Specter_ View Post
        Powerups in the duel game mode? That's ridiculously stupid and nubbish.
        I believe you're completely missing the point in regarding the testing phase of the game. These rules are not set in stone and are in place to have the community try out and give feedback. The idea behind changes to the duel system is that to give the sense of all is not lost to a losing player, should things get out of hand, this is just one of the ways in which this is being looked at. Expect drastic changes to all game modes, weapon balance, maps.. all aspects of the game. It's the best way to provide feedback and come to a perfect balance. It's early, we're testers, and you should be testing also.

        Read jayo's post please. And be allot more open minded in testing.
        http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

        Comment


          #5
          We have to see how smaller maps play out in duel with amp. I havent tried it yet, but considering the low duration of the powerups it might even add more tension to a duel since theres more stuff to fight over and more stuff to time.
          Especially Deck would get a little bit more "balanced" since the lift side of the map is totally broken, but even then, the map is too big and its too easy to hide for 10 seconds.

          I dont have much more of an opinion yet, but I doubt its "ridiculously stupid and nubbish".
          Nonemms Music Thread DM-Lea(Youtube Soundcloud )
          Fabian Joosten - composer for media

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Nonemm View Post
            We have to see how smaller maps play out in duel with amp. I havent tried it yet, but considering the low duration of the powerups it might even add more tension to a duel since theres more stuff to fight over and more stuff to time.
            Especially Deck would get a little bit more "balanced" since the lift side of the map is totally broken, but even then, the map is too big and its too easy to hide for 10 seconds.

            I dont have much more of an opinion yet, but I doubt its "ridiculously stupid and nubbish".

            Exactly, it might work on deck just because it's big. I strongly disagree powerups in duel !

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nonemm View Post
              We have to see how smaller maps play out in duel with amp. I havent tried it yet, but considering the low duration of the powerups it might even add more tension to a duel since theres more stuff to fight over and more stuff to time.
              Especially Deck would get a little bit more "balanced" since the lift side of the map is totally broken, but even then, the map is too big and its too easy to hide for 10 seconds.

              I dont have much more of an opinion yet, but I doubt its "ridiculously stupid and nubbish".
              Originally posted by viperozza View Post
              Exactly, it might work on deck just because it's big. I strongly disagree powerups in duel !
              You share my thoughts on the smaller maps and having an amp. It could certainly pose an issue. But like Nonemm said it may also add additional tension, which isn't a bad thing. Deck wasn't too damaging from the powerup due to the 10second expiry, but you're correct in saying it may not work in all maps. It would be something that a map maker would decide to implement depending on their scale.

              In the past at tournament level we've seen the double damage used on maps such as Compressed, Deck, Antalus. As it stands the powerups are in duel for testing so we should be testing them and using them.

              Alot of other ideas have been shared between the community and in particular at the previous community event, for example allowing a player to use one individual powerup on spawn, or allowing them to pick their spawn location. Other ideas should be shared in here, as-well as reviewing the current duel mode rules
              Last edited by chumb0; 09-30-2014, 04:31 AM.
              http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

              Comment


                #8
                Chumb0 I can agree with your thoughts but consider that atm on deck you have:

                - belt
                - armor
                - helmet
                - the legs armor
                - boots

                Do we really need something else to "add" more action?

                In my opinion the armor system is already too redundant, I'd like to have just 50 and 100 belt (ut2004 style) but I perfectly know this is OT.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by viperozza View Post
                  Chumb0 I can agree with your thoughts but consider that atm on deck you have:

                  - belt
                  - armor
                  - helmet
                  - the legs armor
                  - boots

                  Do we really need something else to "add" more action?

                  In my opinion the armor system is already too redundant, I'd like to have just 50 and 100 belt (ut2004 style) but I perfectly know this is OT.
                  Actually, deck seems to lack armor on one side which can unbalance things. There's no thigh pads in the current version of deck and armor stacking allows the player in control to stack a belt with a 100a to give 200a. Pair that with some vials and you've a pretty **** stacked in control player.

                  Out of control, you have head armor only on the weaker portion of the map, but a fair amount of vails to go by. The amp there allows a player to camp it out and take some frags back. However this is kind of map specific, lets try and talk about the game mode as opposed to individual maps.

                  I agree with your max stack suggestion of 150.
                  Last edited by chumb0; 09-30-2014, 04:27 AM.
                  http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by chumb0 View Post
                    Actually, deck seems to lack armor on one side which can unbalance things. There's no thigh pads in the current version of deck and armor stacking allows the player in control to stack a belt with a 100a to give 200a. Pair that with some vials and you've a pretty **** stacked in control player.

                    Out of control, you have head armor only on the weaker portion of the map, but a fair amount of vails to go by. The amp there allows a player to camp it out and take some frags back. However this is kind of map specific, lets try and talk about the game mode as opposed to individual maps.

                    I agree with your max stack suggestion of 150.
                    <deck OT> Yes I agree on the weaker and stronger side of deck. In ut2004, if I'm not wrong, there was a 50 belt near the sniper at top that was able to balance the map out a bit, bringing some armor on that side. Consider that in ut2004 deck wasn't even consider a duel map tho.</deck OT>

                    Of course this discussion should be more generalistic but I think the DD can fit only in pretty big maps so I guess it should be decided by the mapper itself, based on the community feedback/opinions.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by viperozza View Post
                      Of course this discussion should be more generalistic but I think the DD can fit only in pretty big maps so I guess it should be decided by the mapper itself, based on the community feedback/opinions.
                      I totally agree, it shouldn't be something that is forced into each map, just because. It should be something that is upto the mappers discretion. But obviously right now it's only there for testing. So mappers may want to consider adding it only temporarily.
                      http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by chumb0 View Post
                        Looking at the recent stats of maps being played in duel (Deck16, NickTest, Lea) the only commonly played duel map which has a powerup is Deck16, this has an Amp. I've played a couple of games this evening using the Amp and it's surprising how well it flows, it certainly doesn't break gameplay. In fact, initial thoughts had been to perhaps increase the expire time to 15seconds, as it can expire pretty quickly, at least on deck!
                        Hey chumb0,

                        I appreciate your feedback. I imagine everybody here appreciates any kind of feedback. Amp(UDamage/Double Damage/etc.) has always been overpowered in duel, the reason it has always been removed from the Duel game type. I will have to agree with you on it flowing well with DM-Deck, but I don't think it would play out so well on smaller maps. It does give the losing player more options to come back and take the lead, but it also makes the game a lot more offensive. This would take away a lot of defensive strategies that Deck has to offer, but it also may implement some new ones. I think once the weapons are balanced out in the end we will not need amp, so I am unfavorable of it.
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                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jayoplus View Post
                          rant...



                          I'm probably going to regret this post after I get some sleep but seriously, if this is the kind of knee jerk reactive posts that are seeming to pop up on this forum to EVERYTHING then this is pretty sad indeed.
                          Chumb0 was one of the duelers who have voiced opinions against powerups like amp in Duel but the point is as the current gamemode stands(as implemented by Epic) the power ups are there but only last a fraction of the time in normal game modes.
                          All the OP is suggesting is to try it out and then post your thoughtful review of what you think. Geezus is that really so difficult!?!?!

                          /rant
                          Good. Because I posted what I think about it.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Specter_ View Post
                            Powerups in the duel game mode? That's ridiculously stupid and nubbish.
                            Someone may have posted this already, but I haven't read the whole thread. Powerups are used in dueling traditionally, just not necessarily damage amplifiers / quad damage / double damage or whatever you want to call it. However UT2003 used amp considering how over-powered the shield-stacking system was and the addition of the shield gun.

                            It's a pre-alpha, and it's a play test. Chumb0 has played a large amount of UT4 and has the experience necessary to say that it flows pretty well with amp on. It might not end up that way, especially if we can move past playing Deck16 for 16 straight years. The balance and flow of the game will surely change between now and any real competition, so it doesn't hurt to try anything.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by nvz View Post
                              Hey chumb0,

                              I appreciate your feedback. I imagine everybody here appreciates any kind of feedback. Amp(UDamage/Double Damage/etc.) has always been overpowered in duel, the reason it has always been removed from the Duel game type. I will have to agree with you on it flowing well with DM-Deck, but I don't think it would play out so well on smaller maps. It does give the losing player more options to come back and take the lead, but it also makes the game a lot more offensive. This would take away a lot of defensive strategies that Deck has to offer, but it also may implement some new ones. I think once the weapons are balanced out in the end we will not need amp, so I am unfavorable of it.
                              Hi nvz, I'm agreed with you and I'm not in favour of amp or any type of powerup in a duel. My point is that the current duel game-mode has powerups set at 10s expiry with the intention of them being tested by us and provide feedback. That feedback is likely to result in the powerup being removed. However we shouldn't not try it just because of our initial thoughts. The duel gamemode (and all modes duing the pre-alpha) will see instances of the powerups taken out, and likely replaced without other ideas, some maybe completely crazy. Our job is to try them all out and give feedback. One may be perfect and be groundbreaking in the duel gamemode?! who knows. We'll see. The likely outcome is vanilla duelmode, though.

                              My point is simply that use it and test it whilst it's in the gametype. Current feedback is showing it's not recommended in duel, that's fine. So be it. Remove it, tweak it, try other things. Hope you get my point

                              Originally posted by CC- View Post
                              Someone may have posted this already, but I haven't read the whole thread. Powerups are used in dueling traditionally, just not necessarily damage amplifiers / quad damage / double damage or whatever you want to call it. However UT2003 used amp considering how over-powered the shield-stacking system was and the addition of the shield gun.

                              It's a pre-alpha, and it's a play test. Chumb0 has played a large amount of UT4 and has the experience necessary to say that it flows pretty well with amp on. It might not end up that way, especially if we can move past playing Deck16 for 16 straight years. The balance and flow of the game will surely change between now and any real competition, so it doesn't hurt to try anything.
                              Glad at least you understood the point of the thread CC!. But yeah, the amp simply plays well in deck right now simply because it's set to expire after 10s and you can hide pretty easily. That doesn't make it formidable to be in the game on all maps, though which we all know. And I agree, I'd love to see Deck out of the mappool finally.. Roll on the new maps.
                              Last edited by chumb0; 09-30-2014, 07:21 PM.
                              http://www.twitch.tv/chumbo_

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