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Please save CTF : faster teleporter + 3 rockets pack

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    #16
    Well maybe that's because you are limiting what you consider good CTF players to those who don't like charges

    The current TL doesn't go far enough and is worthless for moving around the map. I don't give two craps about being able to TL on top of a box right in front of me if I can't stop a cap or cut off an EFC.
    HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
    BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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      #17
      Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
      Well maybe that's because you are limiting what you consider good CTF players to those who don't like charges

      The current TL doesn't go far enough and is worthless for moving around the map. I don't give two craps about being able to TL on top of a box right in front of me if I can't stop a cap or cut off an EFC.
      interesting
      i find it very useful
      i would say it feels like you can traverse a map with it faster than you could in UT99

      i'd like to compare face side by side UT99/UT4

      but i haven't noticed a big problem tbh

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        #18
        Again, fair warning - I've never played CTF much, but the one thing I hate about TL is how it makes rockets and flak nearly useless. They are only of use when you are attacking and have the flag and the defenders are chasing you predictably. In all other situations, combos are good due to their large splash damage for prediction, and sniper is good to take out the more unpredictable TL spammers. But that's pretty much it, all other weapons are no better than Enforcer (well, worse sometimes.)

        This, and the overly large maps, are probably the main reasons I don't play CTF.

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          #19
          isn't that kinda the point thought?
          each weapon has it's pros and cons

          yes, if a telemonkey is flying around, it's pretty hard to hit them with flak or rockets
          but, if you are defending the flag, they are going to need to land on the flag at some point
          so that's when you unleash your rockets/flak at them

          you did mention that you hadn't played much CTF - to master taking down a telemonkey, you have to become one yourself

          it's like complaining that shock combos are too powerful, yet you don't know how to combo well yourself

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            #20
            Originally posted by bacon buster View Post
            interesting
            i find it very useful
            i would say it feels like you can traverse a map with it faster than you could in UT99

            i'd like to compare face side by side UT99/UT4

            but i haven't noticed a big problem tbh
            I'm sure it's because I absolutely hate the UT TL and like the 2k4 TL and you are probably the opposite. I likea TL that makes it easy and fast to get anywhere on the map and the UT TL is not good at that. This TL is far more like the UT TL than the 2k4 TL.
            HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
            BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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              #21
              Originally posted by bacon buster View Post
              isn't that kinda the point thought?
              each weapon has it's pros and cons

              yes, if a telemonkey is flying around, it's pretty hard to hit them with flak or rockets
              but, if you are defending the flag, they are going to need to land on the flag at some point
              so that's when you unleash your rockets/flak at them

              you did mention that you hadn't played much CTF - to master taking down a telemonkey, you have to become one yourself

              it's like complaining that shock combos are too powerful, yet you don't know how to combo well yourself
              True lol, any noob can probably defeat me in CTF just by spamming tele and not even using other weapons, even if I can stomp on them in 1v1 or DM. But see, I like playing mid, and that's where Flak and Rox are useless. People are literally flying over your head and there's very little chance to hit them.

              So basically all the playing happens around the flag, and that's boring since you have to wait for people to come get it if you are defending, or teleport for 5-10 seconds if you are attacking yourself before you even have to get a weapon out. I guess CTF is just not for me, I like more fast paced, constant action like DM, or facing off a single opponent like in 1v1. Never was a good team player :P

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                #22
                The funny thing is, the TL makes CTF as fast paced or more fast paced than DM because you can always get to where the action is happening. Midfield is hard for anyone to play because it's more about timing powerups and trying your hand at hitscan than anything else. Rox and flak are very useful on defense and offense.
                HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                  Again, fair warning - I've never played CTF much, but the one thing I hate about TL is how it makes rockets and flak nearly useless.
                  Yeah, totally false. Not just trying to call you out, but the translocator actually makes flak and rockets more powerful. Basically, it lets you close large distances between you and other players pretty much instantly. This lets you get into point blank range much easier than what's possible on foot.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by de`pain View Post
                    They really should just copy UT99 CTF - even down to the sound of the translocator.
                    +1

                    People need to realize UT99's CTF was insanely popular and the competitive scene has lasted 15 years. Further, everyone needs to understand why it was so fun/popular. The trans was perfect in UT99, including telepunting with the impact hammer/shock combo. I don't think you can accurately criticize the UT99 trans unless you played UT99 CTF competitively. It was relatively easy to kill any enemy transing into your base in UT99 with the shock combo.

                    The main issue right now is people who did not play CTF competitively are trying to limit or water down the trans. This is what Epic did in UT3 and it resulted in there not being a CTF competitive scene and the game type was dead right out of the gate.

                    Not to sound harsh, but I don't think people should comment on the trans if they do not plan on playing CTF competitively, hence why I don't comment on anything duel related.
                    Join us for friendly UT4 Pugs at irc.globalgamers.net #ut4pugs

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                      #25
                      That's not really an argument. You can't explain why UT was the most popular/most played game in the series. It is completely unknowable because there are far too many factors that would need to be weighed.

                      I have tried to play pugs on UT and I can't stand the TL. I'm sorry, I just can't. I hate how it works, I don't find it fun, I don't like almost anything about it. And I started the series with Unreal then UT so if playing UT CTF for thousands of hours (which I did, just not competitively) should predispose you to that TL then I was the odd man out. I hate it. It doesn't have anything to do with being able to kill people transing around.

                      The problem with the trans in UT3 was primarily the weapon switch time. Functionally, it was pretty much the same as the 2k4 trans and 2k4 had a healthy CTF scene for a few years. The only real change was the weapon switch time.
                      HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                      BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                        #26
                        The reason I didn't spend time on CTF in UT1 was because I knew it would ages to learn how to use the TL and be as good as the lower skilled guys with it, seriously there's a massive skill curve to it! The trans in UT4 I'm probably as good as anyone with it. Take from that what you may. UT1 CTF is limitless in skill, that's why people have been playing it 15 years. Can you really say the same thing about the other ctf iterations

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                          #27
                          I don't think you can say that about UT CTF. You're trying to create a causal link between things that are really only tenuously correlated. I think you know what the next thing I could say is

                          In 2k4 the skill gap on the TL got freaking massive because TL combined with multijump adds some pretty crazy movement options. Since the only real difference between the 2k4 and UT trans is the ability to go on a juking spree I assume you think the ability to juke unrestrained with the TL is the only thing that adds any depth to it and I just don't agree with that.
                          HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                          BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                            #28
                            I'm out of my depth here cause I didn't play CTF much only a few pugs here and there so I`ll bow out. I do remember the euro scene laughing at UT3 ctf at the time, I'm not making that up for the sake of argument. The only thing I can say is it did something right if it lasted 15 years and I hope UT4 CTF ( and in general ) has similar success

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                              #29
                              Actually, a decent CTF player is used to the possible movements with TL. No problem to shoot a combo to a Guy flying 10 meters in the air, or 2 Rockets at the teleporting point, or a hs.
                              When u get used to the TL, 99 or 2004, you can't play the current build.
                              Launch ut99 or 2004, perform a teleportation is the air above the flag Carrier followed by a move combo on him. You Will understand.

                              The main cause is the weapon switch that is too slow imo. 2004 TL goes far but as movements. I was ok with ut99 TL. current TL seems to heavy
                              Cunni, 37 years old, 16 years of UT, 90% CTF, 10% Duel
                              https://www.twitch.tv/cunni_ut
                              http://plays.tv/u/Cunni
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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Cunni View Post
                                Hi, as a former CTF attacker, I'm very sad with the current build and I'd like to mention 2 points to explain why : teleporter, rockets

                                14 years ago, I discovered UT99. Some friends were playing CTF and it was amazing because they teleported all the time ! I didn't understand anything but WOW, it is one of the reasons I played UT almost every days of the next 5 years as attacker in CTF matches. The teleporter is not only a tool to cross maps as in UT4. It is one of the favorite weapons of the CTF attackers, to surprise defenders, to float above defense or to reach unexpected positions. I don't mention the telefrag that I always disliked.
                                The time between 2 teleportations needs to be much shorter. And considering the spread of the combo, the teleporter should be launched further to be able to avoid them.

                                As attacker, lethal weapons are required before taking the flag to survive when getting out the base especially when shieldgun is not available (as in ut2004). In previous UT we had flak and loaded rockets. In current build, rockets launched separatly are useless when attacking. I understand thay in duel it could be frustrating to be killed by a 3 rockets pack but in CTF, it is mandatory.

                                well that is my opinion. CTF players, what do you think about the current build ?
                                I played a ton of CTF in UT99.

                                The current build doesn`t seem too bad.

                                All I really want is UT99 with better graphics. If the developers question what to do on some element...just make it like UT99. The creators did few things wrong in that game.

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