UT Movement Mechanics Design

[sLY1838]

Yeah, the European community and the North American community have different rules. However, once they started participating in MLUT tournaments (American Based), they embraced those rules for that specific tournament.

By allowing team boosting, you are ensuring everyone can play the game the way they want it to be played. The euros can keep their clan based rules if they want and the Americans will keep their rules. There's a reason 2k3/2k4 CTF failed so horribly in terms of activity and this is one of them. It simply cut off a large portion of players who play CTF with "Team boosting" as the standard setting.

I've said it many times, there needs to be a simple option where server admins can easily enable/disable team boosting through a graphical user interface.

Hopefully we can agree on that.

[Hektoerr]

embraced it? lets say we dont have a choice becouse theres nowhere else where we can play. when d1sc announced the first mlut league it sounded fun first time, but i never imagined that after the first MLUT cup rules would stay the same. People just go to wherever they can play. ut.pug made a vote about weather we should allow launches or not, and yes won by 11 votes for it and 10 votes against it.

I think EPIC showed already many times that they are capable of creating masterpieces, maybe they can figure out something new wich pleases both sides. Instead of a seperation and NA community and Europe community i'd like to have a merged community where americans play on EU servers and vice versa or having lan tournaments with the same rules and an advanced netcode.

For people who doesnt know what we are talking about:

Sorry, couldnt find a better video and i dont want to disturb anyone with it, or promoting anything related to it, but it shows what im talking about.

[Neirene]

This is my first post in the forums and wanted to make it count! as for the current concern from the dev team regarding the movement mechanics that will be implemented this are my suggestions point by point.

General Movement:
• Running speed (in the past has been the same forward/back/strafing)
I believe the running speed should be similar to the UT99 ones while also giving the player the option to adjust the speed to even higher levels like turbo and hardcore of the original game.
The reason of this is because whilst many people would disagree because having a blazing fast gameplay wont look 'realistic' enough we have to consider also that unreal is a futuristic type of game
with elements of scifi and fantasy mixed together hence the reason why I believe the ultra fast speeds should be considered as gameplay options.

• Acceleration (how fast you change direction when moving)
This one is a little bit complicated since most players play on a mouse/keyboard setup to know how fast a player will change directions depends heavily on the motor skills of the player with the mouse/kb in order
to do so what I would like to see is some kind of maybe blur effect or dizziness if you change directions too fast to give a sense of realism to this specific point.

• Air control (how much you can affect the direction of your movement while in the air)
Air control should stay like the one on UT99 since it also takes in consideration the acceleration and the speed changes on air by different methods (being blasted by a rocket, jumpads, jump boots, etc...) it would be great to add
the possibility to run faster and somehow boost yourself to achieve a longer jump than usual without the help of anything else or maybe by using a certain item such as adrenaline?

• Jump height
Jump height I think should be taken care of but mostly from a aesthetical point of view mostly to avoid the player to jump way too high that will allow him/her to see the ugly 3D joints and forbidden areas of maps
that are mostly decorations and aren't meant to be viewed from so many angles but this is something that should rely more on the map design itself rather than on the engine

• Gravity (affects how floaty the game feels. With higher gravity, even if the jump impulse is modified to result in the same jump height, you’ll spend less time in the air)
Same as UT99 should stay the same.

• Dodging (fast low jump in any of the 4 cardinal movement directions, with a sudden deceleration on landing)
The dodging should be double and decelerate after the 2nd jump this will make the game feel much more dynamic and fast paced

• Double jump (past titles only allowed the double jump to occur at the apex of the jump. UT2004 allowed double jump during dodge, UT3 did not/)
Similar to the above request I encourage the double jump

• Wall dodge (ability to perform a dodge while in the air away from a nearby vertical surface)
I support this feature a lot and also give the player to 'combo' jumps and dodges for example to be able not just to wall dodge but to be able to jump and jump from wall to wall in order to reach higher areas.

• Impact/Rocket jumping (ability to jump extra high by jumping while point impact hammer down or using other splash/impulse providing weapon at cost of some health).
This one should be kept as it is from the original UT

• Team boosting (ability to provide impact/rocket jumping benefits to teammates, who take no damage in normal teamgames)
Since the player will be given many options to move faster on the previous points already mentioned I think this specific boost technique should be removed.


Level Designer constrained movement features:
• Ramp boosting (ability to scale a near vertical surface by dodging into it, possible on any near vertical surface in UT2003, and only on LD permitted surfaces in UT2004)
I agree on this one as well

• Lift jumping (taking advantage of lift momentum to get a boost to your jump at the top of the lift’s path)
I wouldn't recommend this one because of all the points already discussed the player has already way too many alternatives to jump, dodge, and do acrobatics.

• Jumppads (provide a long distance jump to a specific destination)
You can keep this ones as they are classy and part of the original UT gameplay style.


Looking forward to be able to participate in giving my input for more elements of the game!
thanks a lot for giving us the opportunity to help you in the making of the next UT game!

[Einfari]

Imho

General Movement:

Running speed: consistent across all directions.
Acceleration: instantaneous.
Air control: not UT03/04.
Jump height: not UT03/04.
Dodging: not UT03/04.
Double Jump: hell no.
Wall dodge: Make it a server-side setting.
Impact/Rocket jumping: yes.
Team boosting: Make it a server-side setting.

Level Designer constrained movement features:

Ramp boosting: yes.
Lift jumping: yes.
Jumppads: yes.

[sLY1838]

embraced it? lets say we dont have a choice becouse theres nowhere else where we can play. when d1sc announced the first mlut league it sounded fun first time, but i never imagined that after the first MLUT cup rules would stay the same. People just go to wherever they can play. ut.pug made a vote about weather we should allow launches or not, and yes won by 11 votes for it and 10 votes against it.

I think EPIC showed already many times that they are capable of creating masterpieces, maybe they can figure out something new wich pleases both sides. Instead of a seperation and NA community and Europe community i'd like to have a merged community where americans play on EU servers and vice versa or having lan tournaments with the same rules and an advanced netcode.

For people who doesnt know what we are talking about:

Sorry, couldnt find a better video and i dont want to disturb anyone with it, or promoting anything related to it, but it shows what im talking about.

Did you really have to post a video with Limp Bizkit? :P Just kidding.

I do think Lavagiant is a bit of an extreme example for launching as that map basically requires team boosting for it to be played on a competitive level. Maps such as Terra, coordinated launches have about a 15% success rate because the defense (and opposing team offense) is already in mid cutting off the flag carrier.

The Euro's didn't play Lavagiant in leagues because of this fact.

[ESL|nite]

tbh, this video just perfectly sums up for me how UT4 should work:

+ adding the new elements from this blueprint: http://youtu.be/HIQabh_xvjE

[Stormblast]

^ See? Gravity solves some problems. That is a great looking mutator.

Going to buy UT3 tomorrow, hope I can find servers with this on.

[DaRkViRuS]

Play in a competitive match and it's very difficult to coordinate such a launch. All it takes is for one defender to shoot a shock primary, secondary flakball, etc... to disrupt the launch and it's over. They either die, or the launch goes horribly off course.

In the video you posted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2FdLqyqI4c - it seems to me you simply have to go to that teleporter room with a teammate with rockets and bypass the whole mid. How is that not broken? Anyway, tt would be fine to me if it didn't make you fly more than half the map or maybe damaged the other teammate a bit like piston jumps.

[raxxy]

In the video you posted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2FdLqyqI4c - it seems to me you simply have to go to that teleporter room with a teammate with rockets and bypass the whole mid. How is that not broken? Anyway, tt would be fine to me if it didn't make you fly more than half the map or maybe damaged the other teammate a bit like piston jumps.

it's not broken because he's not showing the hundreds of times their opponents were ready for it, and stopped them.

[b1olust]

^ See? Gravity solves some problems. That is a great looking mutator.

Going to buy UT3 tomorrow, hope I can find servers with this on.

One server has this on and it's a BTA server. It plays awful. Just play vanilla servers with utcomp or something.

[Diode]

In the video you posted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2FdLqyqI4c - it seems to me you simply have to go to that teleporter room with a teammate with rockets and bypass the whole mid. How is that not broken? Anyway, tt would be fine to me if it didn't make you fly more than half the map or maybe damaged the other teammate a bit like piston jumps.

You've got to get two people there, not just the flag carrier. You've got to have a rocket launcher when you get you get there. Both players have got to position and aim for the launch correctly or you'll miss the target, and you've got to do all this in the mere seconds before the enemy is all over you.

It's not easy. Not against a competitive team that's expecting it.

Listen to the sounds and words coming out of those guys mouths after that launch and successful flag cap. That's the sound euphoria and relief. You're looking at a video of launch going exactly as planned - you're not seeing the countless failed attempts.

Another clue as to the difficulty - A quick google tells me MLCTF plays with a 20 minute time limit. At the start of the video there are just 6 and a half minutes remaining and each team has only one flag cap.

It is *not* easy. It *can* be defended against. It is a question of skill and teamwork, and that it is why the competitive CTF and Assault community demands it.

[Str1der]

General Movement:
• Running speed (in the past has been the same forward/back/strafing)
• Acceleration (how fast you change direction when moving)
• Air control (how much you can affect the direction of your movement while in the air)
• Jump height
• Gravity (affects how floaty the game feels. With higher gravity, even if the jump impulse is modified to result in the same jump height, you’ll spend less time in the air)
• Dodging (fast low jump in any of the 4 cardinal movement directions, with a sudden deceleration on landing)
• Double jump (past titles only allowed the double jump to occur at the apex of the jump. UT2004 allowed double jump during dodge, UT3 did not/)
• Wall dodge (ability to perform a dodge while in the air away from a nearby vertical surface)
• Impact/Rocket jumping (ability to jump extra high by jumping while point impact hammer down or using other splash/impulse providing weapon at cost of some health).
• Team boosting (ability to provide impact/rocket jumping benefits to teammates, who take no damage in normal teamgames)

Level Designer constrained movement features:
• Ramp boosting (ability to scale a near vertical surface by dodging into it, possible on any near vertical surface in UT2003, and only on LD permitted surfaces in UT2004)
• Lift jumping (taking advantage of lift momentum to get a boost to your jump at the top of the lift’s path)
• Jumppads (provide a long distance jump to a specific destination)

I can't really comment on most of these mechanics until there is a playable prototype.

All of these should be included. They are fun mechanics around which useful skill sets can be built.

• Ramp boosting
• Impact/Rocket jumping
• Lift jumping
• Jumppads



• Team boosting - If included needs to be much more limited than it was in UT99. In CTF, a flag carrier paired with a good booster rendered most of the level, and the game for that matter, useless.

[Diode]

• Team boosting - If included needs to be much more limited than it was in UT99. In CTF, a flag carrier paired with a good booster rendered most of the level, and the game for that matter, useless.

Were you a competitive player?

[Str1der]

Were you a competitive player?

Yes....why?

[Diode]

Yes....why?

I don't understand how any competitive CTF or Assault player could say that teamboosting was a problem. Maps in which was to much of a problem were fixed by the community - hell, most of the CTF maps were fixed by the community as many of the defaults gave massive advantages to blue team.

Why do you say that teamboosting is a problem, when it's really the original level designers failure to account for it that's the problem? In popular community made maps, I can't think of one instance of an easy, indefensible launch.