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    #46
    Originally posted by taesiri View Post
    I Personally would like to see Wall Running.
    Wall Running was a lot of fun in Titanfall. I was shocked at how well it worked. It would certainly be unique in the UT series.
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      #47
      A few ideas around jumping and dodging:
      • No more double jump. (Wait, wait, it's not as bad as it sounds if you read on.)
      • Jump height should depend on whether you're actively moving in any direction.
        Basically you have dodging for quick movement with a low jump, a high standing jump (higher than in previous titles, since there's no double jump anymore) and standard jump height when walking/running in any direction.
      • No dodging limit. In other words, you can perform a wall-dodge even if you already dodged or wall-dodged before.
      • Wall-dodge off non-static objects.
        I don't see why you shouldn't be able to dodge off a vehicle or even another player. The latter could be less efficient and instead have an effect similar to jumping on someone's head, i.e. do some damage and push away the victim a bit.
      • Crouched dodging. Essentially you could roll to the left or right. Back or forward rolling wouldn't make much sense, though, as you couldn't keep aiming at the same time.
      • Sliding similar to BulletStorm, but with limited distance. (IIRC you wouldn't stop sliding in BulletStorm if you somehow managed to avoid obstacles.)
        This one should only be possible when already running, jumping or dodging in that direction. Input sequence could be the same as for crouch-dodging, except it might require a more boost-dodge style key press to stay up and not lose speed before starting it. (e.g. side-dodge: ->, ->; right before landing, start entering the slide sequence: ->, v,-> - or something like that)
      • Align dodging to slopes. Dodging should not become useless on slight slopes or bumpy terrain.
      • Allow dodging sooner after landing. For example, the first part of the dodge double-tap could be entered while still in the air, as long as the second one happens after landing.
      • Lift jumps (and in fact also jumps off other moving things, e.g. vehicles) should inherit some of the horizontal movement as well. In fact, that should also happen when simply walking off a lift or moving vehicle. (I do realize this may be difficult because these things are usually very fast, and stepping down a lift while it goes down may require special attention, due to the possible falling damage.)
      Last edited by Wormbo; 08-03-2014, 07:37 AM. Reason: "Dodging should *not* become useless"
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        #48
        Happy to see so many familiar names popping out of the woodwork after all these years. I'm from the US but in 2k4 I played mostly on Europe, especially FFA Deck-17 Multiplay servers. Because of the high ping I never developed a heavy reliance on hitscan, so I expect I remember 2K4 somewhat differently than most people do.


        Here's what my belly tells me:


        Running speed - speed 1.3-1.5x faster than UT2004, uniform forward/back/strafing speed

        Acceleration - immediate like UT99

        Air control - somewhere between 2K4 and UT3

        Jump height - shoulder height

        Gravity - slightly higher than 2K4, significantly lower than UT3

        Dodging - dodge slightly longer than UT3 dodge, no dodge jump. without dodge jump, travel around the map will be slower, but the increased run speed should make up for this

        Double jump - i'd actually favor keeping this in

        Wall dodge - must have. wall dodges should reset z velocity like 2KX and unlike UT3

        Impact/Rocket jumping - Quake 3 rocket jumping

        Team boosting - yes please

        Ramp boosting - must have

        Lift jumping - yes!

        Jumppads - sure, map variety is a good thing


        I've been reading a lot, and while nobody agrees on everything, there seem to be some dominant threads. A lot of people want to see a combination of strong points from UT99 and UT2004: in with wall dodges and out with dodge jumps, in with toe-to-toe combat and out with hitscan dominance.

        Others have noted that UT3 is a good example of such a blend, yet nobody seems perfectly satisfied with UT3's movement.

        If the goal is to achieve a happy marriage between UT99 and UT2004 movement mechanics, where did UT3 go wrong?
        Last edited by Harry Spanner; 11-11-2014, 10:40 AM.

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          #49
          General Movement:
          Running speed: The faster the better (up to a point of course). This is supposed to be fast-paced arena shooter after all
          Acceleration: The faster the better (up to a point of course).
          Air control: I don't mind, I like it in all the UT games and don't really notice the difference.
          Jump height: I don't mind, I like it in all the UT games and don't really notice the difference.
          Gravity: NOT too floaty. It makes you more predictable to hit.
          Dodging: I don't mind, I like it in all the UT games.
          Double jump: No dodge jumping please, it makes for huge map and hitscans dominate.
          Wall dodge: This is a really cool feature, and makes you harder to hit/predict if you are near walls.
          Impact/Rocket jumping: Impact hammer for sure. Rocket, I'm not 100% sure. It would be a bit stupid if shooting a flak or shock ball or whatever wouldn't make you jump too and just damage you. If you could rocket jump but it would still damage you (a là impact hammer) maybe.
          Team boosting: I'm not a big fan. You can skip half the map with a well placed shot, which might break balance. Also, ood luck pulling that off if the people involved don't have microphones!

          Level Designer constrained movement features:
          Ramp boosting: This needs to be in, but I've never come across near vertical surface in UT2004 that I couldn't ramp boost so I don't care what decides if you can ramp boost or not.
          Lift jumping: This needs to be in. It's not hard to balance around it since the LD place the elevators after all, and can open up new routes in CTF or other gametypes.
          Jumppads: Ditto

          Comment


            #50
            • Running speed - Don't change a thing.
            • Acceleration - Instantaneous, or almost so.
            • Air control - Subtle. Enough that there's some influence, but please no Q3 style floating.
            • Jump height - Player should be able to jump onto a chest high platform in a single leap.
            • Gravity - One of the few the things UT3 got right.
            • Dodging - Yes. Wouldn't be Unreal without it.
            • Double jump - No. Remove it. It's redundant in UT3 as the normal jump is so small that there's basically no reason for you to ever perform a normal jump.
            • Wall dodge - I'm on the fence about this one.
            • Impact/Rocket jumping - Yes.
            • Team boosting - Yes. It's vital to competitive play, keep it. A 'no team boosting' mutator could exist for more casual, fun-oriented servers/players if it's that much of an issue for some of them.
            Level Designer constrained movement features:
            • Ramp boosting - Yes. Makes level knowledge more powerful.
            • Lift jumping - Yes. It felt great burst up from a lift shaft and blast a bunch of rockets out as soon as you cleared the edge.
            • Jumppads - Sure. Not a huge fan of them myself, but I don't see why not.
            also known as Humphro

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              #51
              I've enjoyed all three games, and will wait until there is something in front of me to tweak. So I'm only going to harp on one thing.

              Team boosting. Flinging each other across the map simply isn't balanced nor fun. If it's going to be included it should only provide a subtle marginal benefit. Maybe it can help a FC make a jump they normally can't, but it shouldn't allow you to bypass the entire map.

              Boosting is not an essential feature of competitive play. It a preference that some UT99 players have. It was not a significant component of competitive play in 2k3, nor was it important in the UT99 heyday. We had plenty of competition without it.
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                #52
                I'm no expert on movement because it's been a while since I played the UT games, but I do remember as a kid playing UT99 compared with UT2k4, I felt that UT99 felt a lot smoother or responsive but that just might be because everything was low-poly. The simpler engine and design IMO made it easier or preferable when using long range weapons like the Shock Rifle and Sniper Rifle. I did have fun memories playing on maps with sniper-only or instagib where there was a variety of low-gravity, speed boosters, dodging, etc.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
                  Double Jump: The only value a double jump has is to activate a pair of jump boots on the second tap. What was frustrating in UT99 was that if you had the jump boots and wanted to make a small jump, you were forced to activate the jump boots, so I wouldn't mind seeing a double jump mechanic but only for the jump boots. Without the jump boots it didn't seem to add anything of value to the game.
                  Completely agree with this.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
                    Double Jump: The only value a double jump has is to activate a pair of jump boots on the second tap. What was frustrating in UT99 was that if you had the jump boots and wanted to make a small jump, you were forced to activate the jump boots, so I wouldn't mind seeing a double jump mechanic but only for the jump boots. Without the jump boots it didn't seem to add anything of value to the game..
                    Oh yeah, about this, you know you can jump by walking-jump, right? Use SHIFT and jump, that won't activate your boots
                    Walk+Jump actually makes a slightly smaller jump, and if you have boot this won't activate them

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                      [*]No dodging limit. In other words, you can perform a wall-dodge even if you already dodged or wall-dodged before.[*]Wall-dodge off non-static objects.
                      I don't see why you shouldn't be able to dodge off a vehicle or even another player. The latter could be less efficient and instead have an effect similar to jumping on someone's head, i.e. do some damage and push away the victim a bit.[*]Crouched dodging. Essentially you could roll to the left or right. Back or forward rolling wouldn't make much sense, though, as you couldn't keep aiming at the same time.[/list]
                      THIS. These are new things which I had in mind, every new game should have it's "soul" and have something people remember it by. These are very good suggestions. Sliding as you suggested it is very complicated to do and would be almost unused in that form and I don't feel it would be a powerful addition to UT, but that is just my opinion. I'd be happy with wall dodge off non-static objects (especially players and it should do a small amount of damage) and crouch-dodge (rolling).

                      As for the other mechanics, I'm more at home with UT2004 movement mechanics, but I'd remove the dodge jump from game, gravity and jump "speed" should be higher (to remove floatines and puppet in the air feeling) and keep the double jump but with ability to change direction in the second jump (first jump goes straight up or whatever direction you go, and second one goes in which ever direction if you tap directions keys. something like wall dodge but with added vertical movement). It would add to unpredictiveness of movement and somewhat reduce the hitscan imbalance.

                      And yeah, Projectile jumping (rockets, bio, shock ball, hammer/shield) in my opinion should do less self damage and be more easy to do. Like in quake. I really really like the things you can do with rocket jumps in quakelive. (I know a lot of people here would love to hit me with a shovel for this opinion, but just trying to suggest something, not the game changer for me)
                      Last edited by Rad1uS; 05-13-2014, 01:22 PM.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                        A few ideas around jumping and dodging:
                        • No dodging limit. In other words, you can perform a wall-dodge even if you already dodged or wall-dodged before.
                        • Wall-dodge off non-static objects.
                          I don't see why you shouldn't be able to dodge off a vehicle or even another player. The latter could be less efficient and instead have an effect similar to jumping on someone's head, i.e. do some damage and push away the victim a bit.
                        Nice! This is interesting. If there's no dodge-jump then this de facto means including something similar, but harder.
                        meh.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by Steven Polge View Post
                          General Movement:
                          • Impact/Rocket jumping (ability to jump extra high by jumping while point impact hammer down or using other splash/impulse providing weapon at cost of some health).
                          Although this is a bit Quake'ish, I'd like to see more possibilities to jump with weapons. Espeacially with a/the rocketlauncher. This would give in-fights a new dimension. Normally in-fights only happen in horizontal dimensions, I'd like to see this expanded to the vertical dimenson. Nevertheless there needs to be a penalty in health points. In UT2k4 only the SG delivers such a function with a minor health penalty, but isn't really useful in in-fights as it is more of a passive weapon. In my opinion, this would open a lot more possibilities for defensive and offensive tactics.

                          Originally posted by Steven Polge View Post
                          Level Designer constrained movement features:
                          • Lift jumping (taking advantage of lift momentum to get a boost to your jump at the top of the lift’s path)
                          • Jumppads (provide a long distance jump to a specific destination)
                          Please reintroduce the way Walldodge or Boostdodge behaved with Jumppads/Lifts in UT2k3! Using a Walldodge while accelerating in upwards direction using a Jumppad/Lift did not reset your upward acceleraction to zero. In UT2k4 this killed a lot of possibilities of vertical fights. I hope you get what I mean ...

                          I think those movement mechanics will open up a lot of ways to move through maps or fight, without making the game to complicated.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            A note on acceleration: I think it's important for the controls to be very tight, as in an instant change in direction. Many people aim more with their movement than with their mouse, maybe without even realizing it, and movement latency would be frustrating. UT3 had a "drift" when spectating, and I just hated how it felt to spectate in that game.
                            "History is written by the victors"

                            Comment


                              #59
                              • Running speed: a bit faster then UT99.
                              • Acceleration: instantly, needed for competive play since this is area shooter.
                              • Air control: low.
                              • Jump height: same as UT99 (about 64 units).
                              • Gravity: bit more floaty then UT3.
                              • Dodging: simple and fast like in UT99.
                              • Double jump: nope doesnt feel right.
                              • Wall dodge: even tho it was cool in ut2k4 i vote for no since it requires more open maps. I would rather have core UT99 movement which can be changed via mods.
                              • Impact/Rocket jumping: yes with slightly reduced damage form rocket jumping compared with UT99 and UT3(i would also add flak and bio gun here).
                              • Team boosting: only for instagib.
                              • Ramp boosting: makes levels more intersting/creative and its essential for bunnytrack.
                              • Lift jumping: dont see any reason to remove this. Its fun, allows you to reach high surfaces and makes game less predictable.
                              • Jumppads: great on some maps, keep it.
                              • Slam: add slam

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Ground Movement Modes

                                The three basic ground movement modes:
                                Crouching, Running, Walking

                                In UT2004 walking speed == crouching speed.

                                Crouching
                                - Pawn crouches as long as Input is held down.
                                • Slowest Movement Speed
                                • (Sound) Soft Footsteps
                                • Could have increased hearing/see teammate beacons through obstacles (?)
                                • (UT2004) xPawn.CrouchedPct == 0.4 // pct. of "running speed" (176.0)

                                Running
                                - Pawn runs in direction as long as non-conflicting directional inputs are held down.
                                • Default Movement Speed
                                • (Sound) Loud Footsteps
                                • (UT2004) xPawn.GroundSpeed == 440.0

                                Walking
                                - Pawn walks in direction as long as non-conflicting directional inputs are held down.
                                • Slowest Movement Speed
                                • (Sound) Soft Footsteps
                                • (UT2004) xPawn.WalkingPct == 0.4 // pct. of running speed (176.0)

                                Movement Mode Transitions

                                Going from crouched <-> standing etc should be immediate.

                                Suggestion: High Jump

                                1. Double Tap Jump
                                2. Jump Higher

                                - Consistent with triggering a dodge.
                                - No apex timing.
                                - It's either a normal jump or a high jump early on (rather than waiting for the apex to see).

                                Assuming jump is bound to space, and the thumb triggers it, is it practical?

                                Example Lift Jump Scenarios

                                Lift Jump + UT2004 Wall Dodge
                                - If you lift jumped with a wall behind you, you could dodge off the wall to abruptly interrupt ascent.

                                Lift Jump + High Jump
                                - Jump higher.
                                - Might be difficult to get right.

                                (Stat recording for lift jump?)

                                Level Designer constrained movement features:

                                JumpPad Types

                                Touch-Triggered JumpPad
                                - Can save yourself from fall damage by landing on the JumpPad.
                                1. Enter the collision area to trigger the JumpPad (UT2004).

                                Jump-Triggered JumpPad
                                - Can no longer fall from a great height and hit the JumpPad to save yourself from fall damage.
                                1. Enter the collision area.
                                2. Press Jump to trigger the JumpPad.
                                - High Jump has no meaning here.

                                JumpPad Advantage
                                - Players dispatch faster / no blocking lift.

                                Idea: Slide
                                1. While on a slope of some degree..
                                2. Hold Crouch/Duck then Tap Jump
                                - Advantage: If player wants to crouch, can still do that.
                                -- Jump had no previous function while crouching/ducking.
                                3. Activates pawn sliding down at increasing velocity.
                                - Does not have to hold Crouch/Duck or Jump to keep sliding.
                                - Can move to the sides.
                                - Can Dodge / Jump / High Jump
                                - If already falling and landing on eligible slope while holding Crouch/Duck + Space, immediate slide while carrying momentum.
                                - What happens when slope ends? Ease out slide?
                                - Level designer terrain hell?

                                Idea: Antigravity
                                1. Fall from a great height..
                                2. Hold Crouch/Duck to smooth out descent.
                                3. Land softer.
                                - Could require its own resource (regenerative?), shared with low friction sliding?
                                -- Resource only regenerates while grounded?

                                Movement Quirks

                                (UT2004) If a player landed on a slope of a certain degree, any fall damage would get cancelled, and the player would slide down instead.

                                Edit: Replaced Suggestion with Idea, as it was only intended to map out possible uses in various contexts.
                                Last edited by rejecht; 05-14-2014, 11:18 AM.

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