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    Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
    Plausible physics.
    UT4 physics are not consistently "plausible" by any stretch. I still find the walldodge to be absurdly long based on how limiting literally everything else is. The amount of push off the wall horizontally should easily make some differences in wallrun vertical height if you want to talk about what is "plausible" by the muscle strength. You're making leaps of logic to shutdown the discussion. When I say "not unreasonable to use a wallrun to gain some vertical height chained into a walldodge" I'm thinking more in terms of Deck's boxes, not climbing 10 feet in the air.
    Last edited by FirebornForm; 09-19-2015, 04:06 PM.

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      UT4 isn't done, yet you still like to reference it in discussion.

      Most of the movements are plausible. The problem with a vertical run is it's essentially a mid air jump extension. When you kick, you do thwart some gravity, but you kick away from the surface vector. Walking with it, directly against gravity, will lack the necessary friction to be plausible. The difference is one set of variables has to be exaggerated, vs one equation having to be fabricated. The latter will result in it not looking plausible, which is probably the same situation they are having with the wall walk/slide.
      Originally posted by Mysterial
      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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        The "plausible" argument doesnt hold any water. Dodging into a straight Wallrun for a good distance is the least plausible thing yet, less than both the Walldodge and former Wallslide, a lot less than the Roll to break a fall (a real technique) and a hell of a lot less plausible than a simple vertical kick. You honestly have very little grasp on wall techniques, physics and gravity. Kicking up a wall vertically is a lot easier to do than a Wallrun horizontally on an actual vertical surface.

        Considering the fact I can do the same thing with Wallrun (horizontally) as I could with Wallslide, but yet can't use wallrun to get down from areas like before. I can think of why Wallslide was changed to Wallrun for plausibility of sliding on multiple surfaces (like slipping along castle bricks) but I'm pretty sure "plausible" is not why I can only Wallrun horizontally... it's just level design over (vertical) player freedom.
        Last edited by FirebornForm; 09-20-2015, 03:05 PM.

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          Are you really arguing on the assumption that the current wall slide/run is here to stay? Because I'd tell you the same reason as to why that won't last into beta.
          Originally posted by Mysterial
          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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            Maybe it wont last, but it's a step from wallslide into wallrun instead of completely removing it like rolls to break a fall. That obviously shows Epic likes the idea that Sneh started more than just an experiment and that it's better than what they had before which was nothing beyond walldodging.

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              Originally posted by DieSvP View Post
              Awesome ****...and plausible physics should not even be a consideration IMO

              Fun movement > x

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                Arena shooters be like
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                  Well, moar because moar aside, I'm simply giving you an explanation. Ultimately any mechanics that end up staying will find a sweet spot between plausibility, and risk and reward. It doesn't have to be "realistic," it just has to be "not ridiculous." Hoping, of course, they've learned from the failed experiment that was the double jump.

                  A break fall roll/slide would only not be in the game, as there is little risk to it. At least with the shield gun, you had to disarm yourself to do it, so there was risk. If you can simply break fall, weapon in hand, there really isn't much risk, it's all reward, as plausible as the move may be.

                  Mantling needs help. Maybe there is a solution to be found between mantle/wallslide/wallwalk that combines the two in a more deliberately user initiated move. Maybe they will all get scrapped by beta. I am not particularly impressed by any of them so far. I use sprint more.
                  Originally posted by Mysterial
                  An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                    Been a while since I've played, for my money the movement feels better than it has done previously. I am glad all that double jump and dodge jump nonsense has gone, it was the thing I really hated about 2k3/4/3, the movement was very "floaty" vs 99. Did laugh earlier when I was playing though some guy was jumping everywhere he went, bunny hopping will never go out of fashion.

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                      Hey guys , as a competitive player that played the ut99 religiously and did some decent dueling in UT3 I say slowing down the gamespeed of the current game would help out tremendously attracting new talent. Approximately 80 or 90% of the current game speed. The reason I am saying this is very very simple: If you want new blood in this community you need to make this game look good in 30 fps. Currently, even if you stream this game at 1080p at 30fps (even at really high codec quality) it looks like a mess. A person that just stumbles on a regular stream online will not have a good time following the action (also, look at halo and cs, they are like 3x slower in movement and have 30x the size of community). Additionally, most people will not be able to run it at 100+ fps like the super tryhards, and it just becomes a downward spiral of anger and sadness and de`spair when you can't follow the game on your own PC, yet on someone else that is streaming the game. The reason I am mentioning streaming is that you will have people trying this game out - streamers, with thousands of thousands of viewers that will not find this game enjoyable to watch.

                      Additionally, you definitely need to add some momentum to the player to make them feel like they are apart of the game. I know UT99 was the best UT, but game needs to evolve and change to fit the needs of the regular joe gamer.

                      The slide definitely doesn't last long enough, and it sort of ends abruptly, iit would be nice if it had a slow fade to stop at the end.

                      OH, and by the way, i hope you are making a Rocket Arena (QL: Clan Arena) equivalent and making the weapon self-boosts a bit more adaptive for that type of environment, it is how people will be attracted en masse. Basically, what I am saying - as a UT veteran, and as a decent Quake Live dueler, you need to make changes to appease the masses.

                      BTW, HELLO EVERYONE, I HAVE MISSED YOU

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                        I'd like to mention something about movement in UT4 that I've been thinking for a while:

                        I think the strafing acceleration/speed needs to be lowered. The way a player can change direction in a heartbeat can make the action extremely jittery and makes the characters seem like they lack mass. I'm not talking about increasing gravity or anything, I actually really like the movement and the direction UT4 is going with it - its just something about how chaotically fast the action can be sometimes, and how characters don't feel like they have weight.

                        As I mention it every time in the hope of seeing Epic experiment- i'd also like to see the slide tweaked to not end at an arbritary point but when the player wants to by pressing a movement key. I think the slide should continue and gradually lose speed due to friction, with a DLSF penalty for extending the slide to its maximum. I'd also love to see the slide's length/speed be influenced by the slope angle.

                        I think this would give the player more options with their movement (eg extending slide to get behind cover quicker). We don't have wallrun stop after 1 second, so why the slide?
                        Last edited by TotesAmaze; 10-26-2015, 10:29 AM.
                        UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                        Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                        "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                          agree with TotesAmaze as far as changes to the slide. right now the gamespeed feels fast, yet maneuverability leaves a lot to be desired coming from ut2004. i think TotesAmaze's slide changes would be exactly what the game needs to get new players interested in the game.

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                            chonglee I used a custom kicker (that Blitz was kind enough to code for me) in the olden days to let bots fake this behavior. Specifically in my map VCTF-FBU-AkhaRu I used it to simulate bots dodging across gaps.
                            It was basically a kicker that ignored players but bots used the heck out of them. It really helped with botmatch.

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                              Sometimes Bots dodge backwards against walls just to dodge away from them. They even do this in very narrow corridors or rooms. Suggestion: Add more cooldown to dodges or allow walldodges only after short delay.. and not instantly when touching a wall. Remember this game doesn't have painkiller-style bunnyhop.. so having a cooldown when touching ground and having no cooldown when touching walls doesn't make any sense. Imo it's the most annoying when hard bots abuse these kinds of dodges in really unrealistic and unrational ways...

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                                Bots doing inhuman things should be used as a barometer for how those thing should be adjusted. Bots shouldn't be adjusted to make them more human like, the game rules should reign the bots in.

                                As stated above, if the bots can pull of inhuman dodge combinations, the cool down should be increased.
                                Originally posted by Mysterial
                                An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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