Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do we need slide and wall run?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Do we need slide and wall run?

    Well, this is bothering me for a while now. I'm not happy with some of the new movement features Epic Games added in the new Unreal Tournament. For me the slide and wall run just don't fit in the game. This is my opinion and I know that there are people who like these new mechanics, so maybe we can start a good discussion here Little background about myself: I'm just an average player, but I'm following the UT franchise since it's beginning and I played every PC version, especially UT2003/2004. But let's get started now.

    What we need is:

    A movement that stands out...
    I remember a livestream where the devs said that they decided against double jumping because they don't want it to feel like a parkour game. But sliding and wall running do exactly this. It just feels like this is too much, the movement is overdone. The movement in UT was always about dodging, that's what makes it stand out from other games.

    ...but is as simple as possible...
    It's okay that there is no double jump, because it keeps the gameplay grounded and simple, so new players don't get overwhelmed (in a negative sense). And yes I think that the basic movement should be as simple as possible, with a certain depth, which is already added by trickjumps. Also it shouldn't take the focus too much away from the actual goal of the game: shooting your opponents. When I want to do wall running and sliding, I'll play Mirror's Edge. UT is a very fast game and it's about shooting. I don't say that it should be easy to hit your opponents, but the amount of different moves your opponent can do makes it totally unpredictable. Ask yourself what your opponent may do next: Stepping left and right, dodging to the side, running up the wall, sliding on the ground or flying away with his jump boots or some trickjump? Where do you aim?

    ...while having a certain depth.
    I know the intention of the devs is to add something new and keep the movement interesting. But first we have to ask ourselves if it's really necessary that the movement offers something completely new!? In fact I'm open to new things. For example I really like the possibility to do multiple wall dodges. Despite being just a small change, this feels still like UT and has already a big impact on the movement. The problem of new mechanics is that the depth of the movement is already covered by a lot of trickjumps. We've got lift jumps, lift dodges, wall dodges, rocket jumps, hammer jumps, stinger shard jumps and so on.

    TLDR: I think the movement is overdone and should be simplified. IMO slide and wall run don't fit in the game and add an unnecessary complexity to the gameplay.

    As I said before I know there are people who like these movement mechanics, so just leave your opinion here and let's discuss

    Btw I'd love to see Epic Games experiment how the game would play without slide and wall run, but I doubt this will ever happen.
    inUnreal.de - german Unreal Tournament Fansite

    #2
    I believe we do for the time being, infact I think we could even use more movement options for testing purposes to narrow down the ones that truly work best. Its unfortunate but people are kinda playing this game like its a released title and when something is OP they scream for a nerf and Epic tends to deliver and then movement options such as slide become less useful because of it.

    My favourite move in the game currently is the Wall-Run Wall-Dodge, I would be very upset if this were to be removed because to me its almost like a realistic version of the Dodge-Jump. Im just not happy with how its done input-wise and think that context jumping might improve Wall Dodge even further. I also like the idea of Single-Tap Dodge but I feel as though in trying to make it like a normal UT dodge it got nerfed and would have liked to see a better velocity model which would have given analog sticks the ability to dodge in any direction better.

    I feel as though these moves have yet to realise their full potential, that they need to be useful in combat as well and for me the speed of the game has alot to do with that. I dont spend alot of time Wall-Running but when I do its very rare for me to attempt to aim at the same time, there is alot going on I have to take into consideration so I tend to not engage until Ive landed. I think it would be much better if you had time while doing the Wall-Run to aim and engage better but I cant think of a better way to do that than to slow it down a tad or make it more sticky so it doesnt require constant attention from the player.

    Slide is much the same, it needs to be more useful in combat not just for escape and I'll even bundle Sprint in there while Im at it. If Sprint allowed a zig-zag escape pattern it might be used in place of Dodge but it still needs some kind of threshold to when Sprint is disengaged. Slide is kinda similar, you cant steer it at all and theres no way to improve the velocity from it so it doesnt come across as skill based but more of an Auto and Im thoroughly against those.

    All in all this UT has potential to be different in its own way to previous UTs, Id hate to see that taken away from it so soon in development before we have really had a chance to reach the pinnacle of whats possible
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 01-06-2016, 10:40 AM.
    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

    Comment


      #3
      I personally really enjoy slide and wall running. They are the saving grace movements for UT4, they are staples of a modern FPS game and to not include them would leave people bored and uninterested. How much have you actually played around with those movements and actually tried to learn them? Check out my map CTF-Blitz in my signature below, its designed specifically to use and even require the use of slides and wall running to efficiently and tactfully navigate the map. I will agree that with most of the maps Epic is putting out and the community as well, wall running has almost no impact on the game. The slide mechanic is very rare required in a map or only used as a way to slide/change up movements in a fight. Again check out my map below, learn some of the map movements and then come back and say the movements have no place and are boring. I think a big reason most people feel that way is because map makers at this point in time are not incorporating them into maps. Maps are still being made primarily with UT99 movement mechanics in mind and to be honest, those are boring.
      PayBack

      Comment


        #4
        Unreal Tournament is a fast paced arena shooter and i do like the Sliding and Wallrunning. It's a neat feature and i like you can surprise the enemy with that features. Also some of the maps are designed for that feature e.g. DM-Lea. I would even go much further wiht thise features. Just to make them more usefull in certain ways, like extending the wallrun distance to reach points with are more far away then current. Imrpove the sliding so that you can slide around courners. This would also help to get out of fire fights and get to a somwhat more defensive position.

        Comment


          #5
          I love the slide and wall run. Advanced movement options are a hallmark of UT since 1999. Movement in general still needs some tweaking, but I think the new movement options are fun and feel cool.

          Comment


            #6
            I don't particularly have an opinion on slide or wall run. They are fine, useful sometimes, but generally don't feel too good or satisfying to use - however that might be more due to animations than the moves themselves. I'd be fine with them staying in or being removed.

            Comment


              #7
              I really like slide and wall run.

              It can sometimes make the difference to avoid a shot or suprise the opponent, without being abused and game breaker.

              Note that more and more people use wall run on vertical walls to move faster.
              In ctf, I use dodge/piston jump followed by a wall run then dodge. It is very cool !
              Cunni, 37 years old, 16 years of UT, 90% CTF, 10% Duel
              https://www.twitch.tv/cunni_ut
              http://plays.tv/u/Cunni
              Discord PUG Community

              Comment


                #8
                Well, of course you can do some crazy combinations with these movement options. And yes maps have to be made for that, but that's always the case. If we had double jump, maps would also have to be made for that.

                I still think it's just too much what we have right now. When Epic Games announced that they don't want to include double jump, I wasn't that happy either, but I thought it's okay, because it keeps the gameplay more grounded. Yes, movement is and should always be important in UT. But I'd love the game to be more focused on shooting than movement. Maybe it's just my idea of the game that it should be a little bit more tactical: You should think if you really want to engage an opponent. You shouldn't be able to get out of almost any situation by doing some crazy movement.

                My opinion is that UT already has a pretty good movement with all the trickjumps you can do. Wall run and slide would be the first things I'd remove (along with sprint - i mean, what the ****?) to simplify the movement. But I see there are a lot of people who like it
                inUnreal.de - german Unreal Tournament Fansite

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes

                  10chars
                  :|

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Unless they are going to be made useful/fun I would say no we don't need them. Wallrun might have some utility but slide certainly doesn't right now.
                    HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                    BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes.
                      Constantly in duels slide saves my life.
                      The wall run is great for traversing maps.
                      || MSI X99A Raider || Core i7-5820k @ 3.8GHz || DDR4 4GB x 4 Crucial @ 2400MHz || ZOTAC GeForce GTX 970 || 2xSSD + 1xHDD || Corsair RM850 Power Supply ‑ 80 PLUS Gold ‑ 850W || ASUS VG248QE ‑ 24in 144Hz || Mouse: Logitech 502 || Keyboard (Keypad): Logitech G13 || Windows 10 Pro 64bit || Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower || Sound Blaster Z PCIe Gaming Sound Card ||

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yes:

                        Wallrun has a lot of useful abilities. In the past when I was dueling consistently and was good at the game, I would use wallrun to my advantage.

                        Slide on the other hand, needs to be removed or revamped. I only get use out of sliding when going up ramps or steps.
                        Steam
                        irc.globalgamers.net #galaxy #unrealtournament #ut4pugs
                        UT Username - nvz
                        gg! Galaxy Gaming Community


                        SPECS
                        || Core i5-4670k @ 4.2 gHz || ASUS GTX 1070 4GB VRAM ||ASUS VG248QE ‑ 24in 144Hz || Random 54 inch TV || Mouse - Razer Deathadder Chroma || Keyboard - Microsoft Sindwinder X4 || Case - Cyberpower Titan X || 16 gb DDR3 RAM || Logitech g930 Wireless Surround sound Headset || Steelseries QCK heavy + Mouse pad ||

                        #PREALPHA

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Anduriel View Post
                          Well, of course you can do some crazy combinations with these movement options. And yes maps have to be made for that, but that's always the case. If we had double jump, maps would also have to be made for that.

                          I still think it's just too much what we have right now. When Epic Games announced that they don't want to include double jump, I wasn't that happy either, but I thought it's okay, because it keeps the gameplay more grounded. Yes, movement is and should always be important in UT. But I'd love the game to be more focused on shooting than movement. Maybe it's just my idea of the game that it should be a little bit more tactical: You should think if you really want to engage an opponent. You shouldn't be able to get out of almost any situation by doing some crazy movement.

                          My opinion is that UT already has a pretty good movement with all the trickjumps you can do. Wall run and slide would be the first things I'd remove (along with sprint - i mean, what the ****?) to simplify the movement. But I see there are a lot of people who like it
                          Heh well UT4 is kinda already that right now, even with wall run and slide - movement doesn't matter much, and it's focused much more on shooting and positioning. It's also really unforgiving, if you engage someone from a bad position you can often lose all your stack or die. So actually I'd like movement to matter more, especially in combat.

                          And actually, I've started using wall run a lot more recently. It's not as satisfying as multi wall dodge but it does give you quite the speed boost on some maps like Erase. You can get from Shock to Rockets really fast by chaining two wall runs and a slide together, among other tricks.

                          Originally posted by nvz View Post

                          Slide on the other hand, needs to be removed or revamped. I only get use out of sliding when going up ramps or steps.
                          Yeah, IMO slide shouldn't provide any speed boost on straight or downward sloping surfaces, but it should let you get up a ramp faster. That's the only kind of terrain we don't have any faster way of getting up onto short of running, in previous UTs you could spam jump to go up slopes faster but even that didn't give you a huge speed boost. So it would be nice to have slide let you go up ramps quickly, like it did in one of the previous builds a long time ago.
                          Last edited by Infiadux; 01-20-2016, 06:20 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I love the wall running. The slide, however, is just "meh". I don't like the loss of control and auto-tilt associated with it.
                            www.mouserpad.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think both slide and wall run can be an important and fun part of the game including combat especially if map makers emphasize their usefulness.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X