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Dodge needs a cooldown.

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    Dodge needs a cooldown.

    This is my first post here, however I've been playing the alpha which I have really enjoyed so far. Beautiful maps, weapons, and good ol' characters.

    But....When thing that I'm seeing a lot in multiplayer and even in the the bots is the spamming of the dodge button.

    It's basically the enemy constantly tapping the dodge button jumping all over the place making it incredibly hard to hit them.
    I feel like this detracts from a skillful mechanic and more to a who can spam the button the most as there isn't a penalty for dodging and it can be used as much as you want.

    I feel the dodge should have atleast a 1 second cooldown before using it again or some other mechanic that prevents players from wildly pressing it and obtaining good agility with no penalty.

    Just my feedback. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by B1ackJ; 03-18-2016, 04:18 PM.

    #2
    Flat dodging has a brief cooldown, while wall dodging has no cooldown.

    The short time you're in the air from dodging is actually more limiting than a cooldown, since it not only delays the next dodge but it also makes your movement predictable for a brief period. Experienced players can exploit this and pummel players who dodge unnecessarily. It's not as beneficial as it seems at higher skill levels.

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      #3
      It already does. In fact, I'd say at times it feels like the cooldown is too long. Playing with bots is a different story because I'm fairly sure they have a much shorter dodge cooldown.
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        #4
        Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
        Flat dodging has a brief cooldown, while wall dodging has no cooldown.

        The short time you're in the air from dodging is actually more limiting than a cooldown, since it not only delays the next dodge but it also makes your movement predictable for a brief period. Experienced players can exploit this and pummel players who dodge unnecessarily. It's not as beneficial as it seems at higher skill levels.
        Whoops, I actually forgot to make the distinction between wall dodging and ground dodging.

        I'm referring to wall dodging in tight corners. I've noticed when I play bots on high skill and they are in tight corners they start endlessly bouncing off the walls next to them still maintaining 100% accuracy.

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          #5
          Originally posted by B1ackJ View Post
          Whoops, I actually forgot to make the distinction between wall dodging and ground dodging.

          I'm referring to wall dodging in tight corners. I've noticed when I play bots on high skill and they are in tight corners they start endlessly bouncing off the walls next to them still maintaining 100% accuracy.
          This is what you want as pro players will be doing something similar.
          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

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            #6
            Wall dodging feels uncomfortable with a cooldown, and it also makes repeat walldodging nearly impossible because gravity pulls you down so far in such brief time.

            Also bots cheat, and humans suffer from some limitations that impair their ability to 'squirrel hop' like bots do. The biggest one is that your orientation determines the direction of your dodge, requiring almost unnatural reaction speeds to both aim and dodge appropriately. Bots' movement is disconnected from their orientation, allowing them to sprint in any direction and wall dodge with perfect accuracy.

            Of course, bots are as dumb as rocks (sharp silicon rocks?); when they squirrel hop, feel free to avoid those areas, or bait them there for easy shock combo hits. There's no obligation to play fair or naturally against bots.
            Last edited by Dementiurge; 03-19-2016, 04:39 PM.

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              #7
              ^What he said. It's the bots that need to be fixed. They somehow seem to defy all physical limitations while still being pretty dumb.

              Multi-dodging is a lot of fun and would be impossible with a cooldown. Only way around that would be to implement wall-grabbing, but then you'd be a super easy target stuck on a wall waiting for the cooldown to end. Judging the game's movement and weapon mechanics by how the bots use them is not a good idea.

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                #8
                The bots don't cheat (at least when they wall dodge super fast). I'm pretty sure it's possible for a player to dodge just as fast as those bots between two close walls, like the area between Shock and 100 armor on ASDF. The trick is to dodge before you actually touch the wall - even if you are still fairly far from it, the wall dodge grace distance lets you dodge. You can basically ping-pong in-between two walls then.

                I personally like being able to do this but there have already been several complaints about it so I'd be fine with a slightly longer wall dodge reset delay. Stolid's movement prototype has this and it still feels natural while reducing the "ping-ponginess" of it.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                  Wall dodging feels uncomfortable with a cooldown, and it also makes repeat walldodging nearly impossible because gravity pulls you down so far in such brief time.

                  Also bots cheat, and humans suffer from some limitations that impair their ability to 'squirrel hop' like bots do. The biggest one is that your orientation determines the direction of your dodge, requiring almost unnatural reaction speeds to both aim and dodge appropriately. Bots' movement is disconnected from their orientation, allowing them to sprint in any direction and wall dodge with perfect accuracy.

                  Of course, bots are as dumb as rocks (sharp silicon rocks?); when they squirrel hop, feel free to avoid those areas, or bait them there for easy shock combo hits. There's no obligation to play fair or naturally against bots.
                  I concur. Wall dodging with a cooldown will feel uncomfortable even for me. I haven't had many problems with it in multiplayer since I don't play with the advanced players.
                  However with these bots, I honestly feel like it's some kind of sick joke. You seem to have already experienced bots behavior when it comes to dodging, so you probably agree that something needs to be changed.

                  It's not that I want the bots to play "fair" or "human-like", but more so play in a way that is not anti human tracking.

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                    #10
                    I play with lag, because I'm far from servers, it's impossible to me to hit anyone in this game with dodge spam. it's so ridiculous that i can't fell any joy in playing the game.

                    I'm writhing this after a game where the entire people on game won't walk, just spamming dodge. Same guns has a cool down this one people just hit hit hit hit hit and why walk or run ??

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                      #11
                      You shouldn't base your decisions for movement changes off your experience with bots.

                      Honestly you guys should be playing with beginners that do not know how to dodge. Bots are just stupid accurate right now and dumb at the same time so I wouldn't recommend any beginner to play against bots until the AI gets more human like.

                      And if you want to get better at UT playing with bots really gets you nowhere you need to play against real players and keep pushing yourself and don't get frustrated if your k/d ratio is horrible just keep at it.
                      Last edited by ness 710; 06-11-2016, 06:46 PM.

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