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R.I.P. Dodge Jump and Double Jump

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    R.I.P. Dodge Jump and Double Jump

    I am just opening this thread to say how much I will miss dodge jump and double jump. After watching last stream I have zero hopes and my dreams of playing ut2004 in newest UE4 have become black and empty.

    If you agree with me or have some last words for best thing ut2004 had please say and share your feelings with me and rest of community.

    Goodbye dodge jump and double jump, may you rest in peace with best of unreal series ut2004.

    #2
    It does indeed feel like UT2004 players are once again being left out in the cold, no dodge jump, no shield gun, no lightning gun, no double jump, no doubt the standard response will be "if you want it, create it"

    It may sound negative and I do understand that this is still very early on in development, but from what I've seen and heard so far there really seems like there will be nothing here to pull me away from UT2004 which is unfortunate.

    I keep hearing that Epic doesn't want to remake UT99, UT2004 or UT3, and that's not something I would want either, but as a UT2004 player it does feel like our opinions are largely ignored.
    Last edited by anxious_f0x; 08-22-2014, 07:06 PM.
    mi5.THOR*

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      #3
      if you say " i miss dodgejumping" or say "i miss telefraggin", a dev won't get what exactly you liked about it.
      i still do not get why dodgejumping is so crucial for some people, even though there are thousands of posts naming it.
      please tell me once.

      Comment


        #4
        There s an extensive post on why people would want dodgejumping back (i think the post is called "feeling uninvited to ut4" or something). I am also amongst those who have the impression that not much attention is being put into the dynamics and freedom of movement, which distinguished the gameplay.
        sorry I tend to have a positive outlook on things, but it seems to me that not enough emphasis is being put into this matter, which should act as a core mechanic.

        Comment


          #5
          I will say I want lightning gun. I want it bad!
          HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
          BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

          Comment


            #6
            would you also say that bunnyhopping is equal to "freedom of movement"?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by duffte View Post
              would you also say that bunnyhopping is equal to "freedom of movement"?
              we get it duffte you are over 30, you played unreal tournament 99... what else hmmm, what is bunnyhopping that has never been a ut2004 feature and this thread is for people that miss dodge jump and double jump, if you don't miss it don't post in here!

              Comment


                #8
                I don't miss it but you lumped lightning gun in there D:
                HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by duffte View Post
                  if you say " i miss dodgejumping" or say "i miss telefraggin", a dev won't get what exactly you liked about it.
                  i still do not get why dodgejumping is so crucial for some people, even though there are thousands of posts naming it.
                  please tell me once.
                  I will list a few to make it easier...

                  1) Makes it possible to reach places that a standard dodge isn't sufficient for.
                  2) Another move for your enemies to potentially have to expect.
                  3) Dodging further into cover.
                  4) Quickly maneuver around the map to flank the enemy.
                  5) That extra bit of dodge at the right moment can be the difference between a full combo to the face, or just being caught by it.
                  6) Makes for some spectacular flying shock combos of doom.
                  7) Makes clearing splash damage easier.
                  8) Adds momentum and distance to some projectiles.

                  I had no intention of getting into such discussions as that this point it seems Epic have made their minds up, as long as it's not another UT3 I'm sure it'll have it's fans and hopefully be successful.
                  mi5.THOR*

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yes Duffte i would say that, but i would like to have more tools in my movesets, to be more creative during play. To me personally, beig able to do big airjumps through combinations of dodging, doublejumps, slides, shieldjumps, doublejumps, etc was a big part of the funfactor. Plus all these tools come in handy when you re in big AS/ONS gametypes, or in really crowded DM servers. If the game is a hit, as i hope it will be, such scenarios would be common (and lots of fun).

                    as i said before, i m not going for the nostalgia factor, but for the fun factor, and I think that grater possibilities of movement contribute to this significantly, besides being a distinctive trait of UT. So, even if doublejump or dodgejump are taken out and replaced with other combinations/possibilities, that would be fine with me...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by bass3 View Post
                      we get it duffte you are over 30, you played unreal tournament 99... what else hmmm, what is bunnyhopping that has never been a ut2004 feature and this thread is for people that miss dodge jump and double jump, if you don't miss it don't post in here!
                      im < 30 and played both games with all my heart. i just really want to understand it, because we could find a better way than dodgejumping. it is really sad that ppl want that feature instead of something new (and better). but to get there the anger has to go. now that this thread is about accepting it, next step would be to get your head working and do something even better or solve the scaling issue that came with it.
                      i do think about it quiet often and find it tough to claim new grounds. more heads = higher shot at getting there. i tried to get some ppl that are in favour of dodgejumping to this point, but nobody actually does something.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Bass3, why do you want an exact remake of Ut2k4?

                        Originally posted by anxious_f0x View Post
                        I will list a few to make it easier...

                        1) Makes it possible to reach places that a standard dodge isn't sufficient for.
                        2) Another move for your enemies to potentially have to expect.
                        3) Dodging further into cover.
                        4) Quickly maneuver around the map to flank the enemy.
                        5) That extra bit of dodge at the right moment can be the difference between a full combo to the face, or just being caught by it.
                        6) Makes for some spectacular flying shock combos of doom.
                        7) Makes clearing splash damage easier.
                        8) Adds momentum and distance to some projectiles.

                        I had no intention of getting into such discussions as that this point it seems Epic have made their minds up, as long as it's not another UT3 I'm sure it'll have it's fans and hopefully be successful.
                        1. Dodge jump called for wider spaces so you couldn't get straight to every place in sight. If you can't reach something, the mapper didn't want you to.
                        2. By potentially expect, you probably mean always. Dodge jump makes you an easy hitscan target but let's you jump 20 feet away from an oncoming rocket even with poor reaction time.
                        3. Hitscan extravaganza.
                        4. Bigger maps means the same travel time as smaller maps with regular dodge. The enemy also can move at the same pace you can.
                        5. Well, looks like you should have played your cards faster. Dodge jumping makes shock combos near useless in face to face combat.
                        6. So does z-axis gameplay provided by tighter maps.
                        7. And makes hitscan dominate the entire game. Kills weapon balance.
                        8. Dodge jumping does neither of these.

                        All of these arguments have been repeated time and time again on these forums.

                        Originally posted by Gengisgandhi View Post
                        Yes Duffte i would say that, but i would like to have more tools in my movesets, to be more creative during play. To me personally, beig able to do big airjumps through combinations of dodging, doublejumps, slides, shieldjumps, doublejumps, etc was a big part of the funfactor. Plus all these tools come in handy when you re in big AS/ONS gametypes, or in really crowded DM servers. If the game is a hit, as i hope it will be, such scenarios would be common (and lots of fun).

                        as i said before, i m not going for the nostalgia factor, but for the fun factor, and I think that grater possibilities of movement contribute to this significantly, besides being a distinctive trait of UT. So, even if doublejump or dodgejump are taken out and replaced with other combinations/possibilities, that would be fine with me...
                        Wide open spaces and longer jumps really ruin any chance in interesting/creative frags. Constant hitscan (clicking directly on your target) has much less room for creativity than good projectile timing and interesting shock combo angles. When EVERY dodge becomes a dodge jump, you have to think about whether it is even worth having the "extra" feature. This is why they cut double jump. If you were given the ability to fly, would you accept that into the category of more tools to play with? By your statement, more tools means more dynamic gameplay, right?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by duffte View Post
                          im < 30 and played both games with all my heart. i just really want to understand it, because we could find a better way than dodgejumping. it is really sad that ppl want that feature instead of something new (and better). but to get there the anger has to go. now that this thread is about accepting it, next step would be to get your head working and do something even better or solve the scaling issue that came with it.
                          i do think about it quiet often and find it tough to claim new grounds. more heads = higher shot at getting there. i tried to get some ppl that are in favour of dodgejumping to this point, but nobody actually does something.
                          I think half the problem is that people are trying to find an alternative to something that in reality already had a perfect solution, why try and find ways of mimicking what dodge jump gave you when in fact all you have to do is include dodge jump?

                          The scaling argument also seems crazy to me, the current maps I've tried don't at all feel like they'd be broken by enabling dodge jumping, but as I said, Epic won't listen to UT2004 players, so this argument is pointless
                          mi5.THOR*

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The dodge roll is pretty much the equivalent of a dodge jump anyway, though I must shamelessly admit that I like my suggestion the best, but no one listens to poor Zathras. :P

                            Comment


                              #15
                              i am with both of you guys.

                              scaling answers some of your points, but there are a few that i think need to be revisited in ut.
                              for one you named acceleration (which is not true for dodgejumping, unless you play on a small scaled map/area).
                              another point was avoiding splashdamage (i think if you have dodging implemented you need to be able to deal with that WAY better).

                              now the splashdamage thing needs to be changed outside of our movement system by revisiting the weapons.
                              but acceleration really is something we might be missing out on.

                              my invitation to you is to open a new thread, title it "acceleration" and ask people to contribute to it.
                              if you or somebody else come up with a way that does not ruin scaling (too much) and is a new movement mechanic, nobody will deny it.

                              please.

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