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    Messaging Sprint

    As I'm sure almost everyone knows at this point, there is a sprint mechanic in the game. The sprint mechanics basically works as follows.

    You are standing still.
    You press W to run forward at your maximum speed (950) [Running without sprint]
    You hold W for 200ms. [ramp up time]
    You continue to hold W, and over time you gradually increase your speed to 1200. [Running without sprint but accelerating]
    You continue to hold W and continue moving at a maximum speed of 1200. [Running with sprint]
    You press A to strafe left and turn your mouse to face another direction. [Sprint lost]
    You press W to run forward at your maximum speed (950) [Running without sprint]
    You hold W and immediately gradually increase your speed to 1200. [Running without sprint but accelerating]
    You stop moving. [ramp up time lost]
    You press W to run forward at your maximum speed (950) [Running without sprint]
    You hold W for 200ms. [ramp up time]
    etc.

    As you can see, knowing when you are sprinting and when you are not sprinting and how much you are sprinting and if the ramp up time applies to you right now are all things that need to be messaged to you somehow. I kind of like the example that piemo made (it could be modified or whatever this is just an example).

    [webm]http://s1.webmshare.com/o8jyg.webm[/webm]

    So:

    Icon not shown: Ramp up time applies.
    Icon shown: Ramp up time does not apply.
    Bar filling: Running without sprint but accelerating.
    Left edge light on: running with sprint.

    Personally I think something along these lines is the best way to message this to the player. An icon showing a stance doesn't message many of the things that need to be messaged. A series of arrows pointing somewhere and filling also doesn't really show what is happening. Of course, I'm making this thread so people can discuss this. What are some good ways to message?

    Also, there is absolutely no messaging for other people sprinting so I'd be interested to hear thoughts on how that could be messaged?
    Last edited by Sir_Brizz; 11-14-2014, 03:44 PM.
    HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
    BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

    #2
    [webm]http://s1.webmshare.com/o8jyg.webm[/webm]

    Testing webm
    Last edited by Flak; 11-14-2014, 03:28 PM.
    Stacey Conley
    -----------------------------
    Unreal Tournament Community Manager
    Epic Games, Inc.
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      #3
      In my opinion the main problem with sprint is that it is a passive-passive mechanic. Because of this it is obligatory to add some kind of indicators to the HUD so you know your current stage of sprinting. Also I agree that there should be some kind of indicator to see if other players are sprinting. My first idea would be to add a small wind effect behind the playermodells using sprint.

      Our community member xFuneralx showed us a few weeks ago his idea of a "Dodge-Bounce" movement mechanic. In this thread I proposed the idea to use this mechanic as a activation method for sprint. I'll just quote myself on this:

      Originally posted by Danielito View Post
      I know you are looking to make this playable via a mutator, but I could also imagine something like this in the core movement system. For example with a decreasing bounce-strength we would not end up in bunnyhopping.
      Or why not use that mechanic to activate sprint. So after you bounce and land, you are sprinting. That would actually be more fun, than just walk in a straight line.
      Imo it would way more pleasing to activate sprint in such a manner and also translates better for new players.
      Last edited by Danielito; 11-14-2014, 04:35 PM.

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        #4
        Brizz you have the messaging confused on what the sprint bar is supposed to represent.

        Bar showing = Ramp up time on running in a straight line.
        Players need to know how long it takes to "Reach sprint" not so much how much to "Reach max sprint speed"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by FirebornForm View Post
          Brizz you have the messaging confused on what the sprint bar is supposed to represent.

          Bar showing = Ramp up time on running in a straight line.
          Players need to know how long it takes to "Reach sprint" not so much how much to "Reach max sprint speed"
          It's not specified and piemo made that bar. IMO counting down the ramp up time is pointless. You are either in "sprinting" state or not (the icon is either showing or not showing). What you don't know is how fast you are going and how close you are to max speed.
          HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
          BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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            #6
            That's fine and all but you still need to know what it takes to even get to sprint.

            I came up with my own variation off of my ideas and piemos ideas that I havent posted on the HUD thread yet because I'm working on icons again but it's basically this.
            The trim color signifies a maximum of whatever container it's in, otherwise it has no trim and or is colorless. Once the trim is showing, you can't get any more. This lets players know they've reached the limit.

            Health: 199 it will get a blue trim.
            Shield: 100 sp it will get a yellowish trim
            Sprint: Once reach full speed it will have it's trim color
            Belt: Once you have full belt it has a trim.
            Boots: Only full boots (3) will have it's trim color.

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              #7
              I'm not saying that messaging the ramp up time is not important, but to me it's far less important than knowing how fast I'm going compared to my base movement speed or if I'm going as fast as I can. I think the icon showing or not is a good way to do that but maybe the icon could fade in or something to show ramp up time.
              HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
              BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                #8
                Fading is what I had in mind with my max = trims idea. But if that's not informative enough because it might be hard to see then I'd go with a double fill for the sprint bar. It shows up, and slowly increases the size of the container once ramp up starts, and then once sprinting starts it fills that bar up, until max sprinting speed which then gains the trim. Because you can keep sprinting speed, but not always max sprinting, or losing it completely it's good to have either the double fill or the fade up.
                Last edited by FirebornForm; 11-14-2014, 05:04 PM.

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                  #9
                  Well there is the breathing, I found changing the values to 1.5 delay, and the acceleration to 400 gives a lot better visual/audio feedback without looking at the Hud. Having something on the hub like the webm should make it transparent.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Techies View Post
                    Well there is the breathing, I found changing the values to 1.5 delay, and the acceleration to 400 gives a lot better visual/audio feedback without looking at the Hud. Having something on the hub like the webm should make it transparent.
                    You're referring to the breathing as the audio que about the ramp up time yeah? I don't really think that's enough because by the time I hear breathing I'm basically already sprinting so there's no ramp up notification but instead it's more of a full speed sprint notification. I still think a thingy on the HUD for ramp up and sprinting speed would be the way to go. I'll make an update to the HUD concept shortly.

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                      #11
                      Sound is okay as an auxiliary notification of sprint, however it isn't good enough to message the mechanic.
                      HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                      BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                        #12
                        Numerical speedometer too quakish?
                        Originally posted by Mysterial
                        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                          #13
                          As far as I can tell, the only reason the sprint mechanic has a delay in the first place is because it helps sprinting to be more effective than dodging for longer distance traversal (that's what I found by playing around in the test track anyway). There may be a way to remove the delay altogether by changing how dodging interacts with sprint speed. I'm not too sure how things work currently, but it seems like dodge impulse is being added to sprint speed, save for a max horizontal velocity cap (set at 1500 last time I checked). If dodge impulse wasn't added together with sprint speed, or if sprinting only had a very minor effect on dodge distances, perhaps the sprint delay could be removed? Another thing that might help is having a separate "deceleration" value that would be applied after a dodge, so that the reduction in speed after dodging is slower and smoother. Longer decelerations could also be applied with increases in velocity, as if your character has to work harder to catch his steps. If all else fails, instead of having a linear increase in sprint speed it could be changed to something else (quadratic? I'm no mathematician).
                          Last edited by bad_infinite; 11-19-2014, 06:59 AM.

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                            #14
                            @Sir_Brizz

                            Why not use sprint as A+W+D pressed together?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by bad_infinite View Post
                              As far as I can tell, the only reason the sprint mechanic has a delay in the first place is because it helps sprinting to be more effective than dodging for longer distance traversal (that's what I found by playing around in the test track anyway). There may be a way to remove the delay altogether by changing how dodging interacts with sprint speed. I'm not too sure how things work currently, but it seems like dodge impulse is being added to sprint speed, save for a max horizontal velocity cap (set at 1500 last time I checked). If dodge impulse wasn't added together with sprint speed, or if sprinting only had a very minor effect on dodge distances, perhaps the sprint delay could be removed? Another thing that might help is having a separate "deceleration" value that would be applied after a dodge, so that the reduction in speed after dodging is slower and smoother. Longer decelerations could also be applied with increases in velocity, as if your character has to work harder to catch his steps. If all else fails, instead of having a linear increase in sprint speed it could be changed to something else (quadratic? I'm no mathematician).
                              I think (don't know) that the delay is there to balance sprint speed with dodge spam. Both mechanics starting from not moving have about the same falloff after 4 seconds of travel (after which there are varying gains between them). Everything seems to be balanced around close to that 4 second mark.
                              HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                              BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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