Originally posted by MoxNix
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Another take on movement (Long live the air control!)
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Originally posted by Specter_ View PostStill haven't been given a good reason why double jump shouldn't be in the game. I guess you didn't clearly see what I said the first time. Oh and also, the fact that you're using the UT99 servers to help your case is pathetic. Still an ignorant-minded past-dweller, lol.
Excellent reasons have been listed here time and time again, by players and the devs alike.
Double jumping invalidates the usage of projectile based weapons and shifts the meta to long range hit scan engagements as well as messes up the proportions and spacing, defacto requiring larger maps to accommodate the further movement distances.
The extra air control combined with the stalling of downward momentum pretty much breaks the usage of rockets/flak/bio rifle and so on, part of the reason the bio rifle is so good right now is precisely because you can't double jump. This isn't to say movement is limited in UT 4, because it's not, people bouncing off walls and what have you in ways you never could before, suitably replaces the idea and mechanic behind double jumping without removing the readability, since you're dependent upon terrain.
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Originally posted by Laokin View PostExcellent reasons have been listed here time and time again, by players and the devs alike.
Double jumping invalidates the usage of projectile based weapons and shifts the meta to long range hit scan engagements as well as messes up the proportions and spacing, defacto requiring larger maps to accommodate the further movement distances.
The extra air control combined with the stalling of downward momentum pretty much breaks the usage of rockets/flak/bio rifle and so on, part of the reason the bio rifle is so good right now is precisely because you can't double jump. This isn't to say movement is limited in UT 4, because it's not, people bouncing off walls and what have you in ways you never could before, suitably replaces the idea and mechanic behind double jumping without removing the readability, since you're dependent upon terrain.Last edited by enoch84; 02-02-2015, 09:11 AM.
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Originally posted by Laokin View PostDouble jumping invalidates the usage of projectile based weapons and shifts the meta to long range hit scan engagements as well as messes up the proportions and spacing, defacto requiring larger maps to accommodate the further movement distances.
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Originally posted by M^uL View PostI've been running a UT3 server since day 1 of UT3 and I'm still running one (yes I know...) and I can say this has not been an issue in Deathmatch at least. This was much more of an issue in 2K4 of course with dodge jumping.
I don't really used double jump to avoid rockets either because frankly you're still a very slow moving target when jumping and therefore people would just hit you when you land since the horizontal movement speed is so slow when jumping which always will be the tradeoff with jump and why it's not usually that effective (honestly only noobs keeps doing that). Dodging was far more effective.
But double jump worked well with lift jumping and to look down/shoot over an edge and those things are the ones I'm missing. Dodge jump I don't want in for the reasons stated above, that has both the height and horizontal speed to make dodging projectile weapons very effective (a bit too much so if you ask me and I've played a few rounds online with the earlier movement proto on Payder and my conclusions were pretty much this) but double jump won't do that and will add a bit more depth to the movement.Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 02-03-2015, 03:43 AM.
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Originally posted by Laokin View PostExcellent reasons have been listed here time and time again, by players and the devs alike.
Double jumping invalidates the usage of projectile based weapons and shifts the meta to long range hit scan engagements as well as messes up the proportions and spacing, defacto requiring larger maps to accommodate the further movement distances.
The extra air control combined with the stalling of downward momentum pretty much breaks the usage of rockets/flak/bio rifle and so on, part of the reason the bio rifle is so good right now is precisely because you can't double jump. This isn't to say movement is limited in UT 4, because it's not, people bouncing off walls and what have you in ways you never could before, suitably replaces the idea and mechanic behind double jumping without removing the readability, since you're dependent upon terrain.
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Ey Everyone, Just like to say, I was a hardcore player in ut2k4, in my country (RSA) just before ut3 came out, i was top 5 in dueling, one thing i have to agree on is that double jumps / dodge jumps did cause projectiles weapons to suffer, one of the reason i state this is because, prediction was not the problem, but you had to be sure a guy was dodge jumping before you fired a projectile, which in return caused weapon fire rate to be decreased while the other player with a SR, LG, Mini or link could continue to fire at normal rate. same with shooting some one mid air with projectiles, for instance, instead of using one rocket to hit a guy, you needed two.
Dodge jumping made the game fun and it was an upgrade to it's predecessor, despite the disadvantage it posed for people like me that love the RL, tho i feel ut3 took away that features without giving anything back.
I don't think we need dodge jumping in UT4, provided the game gets an additional feature that provides the same amount of enjoyment / gameplay.
Double jump is debatable, I feel if we don't have dodge jumping, we should also not have double jumping. Lets look at the current build of UT4, fight with a rocket launcher, and rate difficultly you have hitting some one with the center part of aoe dmg at medium distance ( meaning you do max splash dmg to a target), and rate it from 1-10, atm for me, it is quite challenging. increasing movement or adding double jump/doge jump will almost make this impossible ( provided you fight a decent player ) with the current RL build.
Maybe i love my RL just so much and fear for the worst but i do hope my point is being shown in my post.
Manta
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Originally posted by Man7a View PostDodge jumping made the game fun and it was an upgrade to it's predecessor, despite the disadvantage it posed for people like me that love the RL, tho i feel ut3 took away that features without giving anything back.
I don't think we need dodge jumping in UT4, provided the game gets an additional feature that provides the same amount of enjoyment / gameplay.
MantaLast edited by TotesAmaze; 02-04-2015, 11:44 AM.UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
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Updated with some more tweaks & balancing.
Tried to make regular dodges a bit more "powerful" according to feedback, but no drastic changes. I still think it sould take as little time as possible to dodge & change direction.
Slight increase in single jump height & crouching speed.
Rolling speed is now equal to running(used to be lower) with slight decrease at the end of the roll.
MovementPrototyper.zip
Here trying it out on Lea & Otpost23. I'm also noticing that you're not obligated to double jump to move around the map and there's a lot of places where "minor" jump is prefereble & faster than vanilla one.
Last edited by K-2; 03-11-2015, 05:24 AM.
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I'm not gonna lie, that looks sexy.
Also i see both sides, those who love double dump like myself and those that don't.
But in truth whats the harm in just having these types of movement in the game as a select-able thing that servers can enable or not.
Those that want it get it and those that don't don't. Let the community play the game the way they wan't to.Last edited by halfblocked; 03-11-2015, 06:23 AM.
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Originally posted by K-2 View PostUpdated with some more tweaks & balancing.
Tried to make regular dodges a bit more "powerful" according to feedback, but no drastic changes. I still think it sould take as little time as possible to dodge & change direction.
Slight increase in single jump height & crouching speed.
Rolling speed is now equal to running(used to be lower) with slight decrease at the end of the roll.
[ATTACH]12894[/ATTACH]
Here trying it out on Lea & Otpost23. I'm also noticing that you're not obligated to double jump to move around the map and there's a lot of places where "minor" jump is prefereble & faster than vanilla one.
This is the best of all the prototype . More features, more dynamic , more skills
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Originally posted by halfblocked View PostBut in truth whats the harm in just having these types of movement in the game as a select-able thing that servers can enable or not.
Those that want it get it and those that don't don't. Let the community play the game the way they wan't to.
As for the newcomers who would play UT the very first time - there's no difference for them at all cause people are just excited by running & shooting things at fast pace. The real difference is in the depth and skill celling as people progressing through the game. In this case double jumping and decent air control adds a lot to evasive component of the combat as well as gives more options to reach certain areas of the map. Especially DJ makes it harder to hit with "lazy aiming" for hitscan as there's more potential spots to put your crosshair in the first place (so we don't need to nerf the shock beam & sniper rifle).
Such things as quad-jump & low grav are pretty much OK as selectables but the core movement is somewhat different.Last edited by K-2; 03-11-2015, 07:33 AM.
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