Your Current Thoughts On Movement

[Sir_Brizz]

I know these threads pop up left and right all the time in here, but let's start yet another one for the time being. What are you current thoughts on the movement?

As for the poll on this thread, please answer which movement you feel is a better starting point for tweaking and if you want to comment on why you feel that way please do.

[nuxx]

It's hard to vouch for either until we get maps that don't feel so crowded with skins being gigantic. The responsiveness of your custom mutator feels better but if the scale and character size remain similar to UT3 it will be like cats fighting inside a barrel

[cafe]

I think the movement is too complicated. It does a lot of things and does none of them particularly well. I think the problems with the movement ultimately come from the lack of precision caused by the use of a capsule for the player collisions instead of a rectangular box. I don't think the answer is to necessarily speed up or slow down the movement or add new movement options. I think the base movement code and player collisions need to be completely rewritten and the sooner it is done the less painful it will be.

Steve, we're counting on you!

[code187]

From observations, i see a lot of people saying they love Raxxy and Brizz Prototype Movement but i see no one playing on custom movement servers. I see Epics movement servers populated. Yeah people try it then say OMG its the best but never play it again.

Id rather people be honest about what they really think and not just say they love it because the boys asked them to.

I prefer ut99 movement + wall dodge

[nuxx]

More people are playing on epics probably because they don't know how to get it to work etc. Personally I think its much better than the base movement but the scaling isn't suited for it. I agree about the UT1 movement but we can't really have a carbon copy, or have a carbon copy of UT2k4's etc. The main problem why this part of the game development is so problematic is the scaling, eye height and character size imo, things which were off in UT3 and continue to make the gameplay clustered, I don't think simply making bigger maps is going to eradicate the problem

[Stolid]

I'd prefer to start from the standard movement and tweaks from there until its fast enough and feels good than starting off with something that has quite a lot of substantial changes in one go.
Only a few properties need to be adjusted to already feel a lot better, mainly player accel with perhaps dodge height and running speed. 10% in these matters is already a big increment to play with.

If I had to guess the vast majority of the praise for the custom movement was for the changes in those values anyway. The more fundamental movement changes that were done to dodge-walldodge and the overhauled kneeslide mechanic were almost if never used every time I played, I was the only one abusing dodge-walldodge like crazy.

One more thing to consider is the difference between how it feels in first person and what you see in third person from other players. I find a lot of players already have trouble keeping track of and hitting other players (excluding the weapons that are nearly impossible to miss with for now) that are being evasive while at the same time they themselves feel they are moving somewhat slowly. There is a risk that by increasing the speed so much that veteran players feel like moving around in first person is fast it is then made too fast for newer players to handle the movement of others while in combat.

[Sir_Brizz]

From observations, i see a lot of people saying they love Raxxy and Brizz Prototype Movement but i see no one playing on custom movement servers. I see Epics movement servers populated. Yeah people try it then say OMG its the best but never play it again.

Id rather people be honest about what they really think and not just say they love it because the boys asked them to.

I prefer ut99 movement + wall dodge

It's pretty easy to get people playing on them, though. If someone is on there they will join. Right now the main issue is that people go where people are and people don't just idle on those handful of servers for a variety of reasons. One being the difficulty of maintaining the mutator which there is as yet no solution to.

[code187]

For me when i say ut99 movement i dont mean cut and past. I want to be able to dodge with finesse which is what 99 did perfectly. Skill in handling a difficult or highly sensitive situation, extreme delicacy or subtlety in action, performance, skill.

I want to be face to face and know i can get out of the way of flak eg. If i die i want it to be my mistake, not dont do nothing wrong but die. I dont want to be able to dodge my way thru the map in 5 seconds, i dont want people flying all over the place, i want grounded combat like 99 with areal moves but not in the air 50% of the time like in 2004. I want to be able to jump on boxes that i should clear easily not BT timing them. list goes on. But its pre alpha and i have faith in Epic

Yes movement and dodging is a huge issue and wish epic fixes it ASAP which needs to be fixed before weapon balance but thats another issue.

Im still enjoying the privilege to be able to play and be part of the community of my Fav game so early on.

We have made enough noise its impossible that it has gone unheard. If there was a easy fix i bet it would of been fixed. Im sure it will be sooner or later but everyone just wants it now just as i do...

[Megasporwic]

For me personally no double jump is killing the fun. The movements are very stiff with barely any air control to move around. I must say I have not tested Raxxy and Brizz movements yet. Also The weapon Balancing of this current game is killing my fun. Truthfully I think many people on this forum (most the long time UT players, The guys that are really good) you guys seem to be pushing for an extremely difficult game to be published here. A game that only a handful will ever be really good at. This will result in a major low population of players. In three years you'll be playing this game by yourself! This game needs to be fun to play! Spawning and Dieing is seconds is not fun. Playing CTF-Face and not being able to get around the building because you constantly get head shot from the other side of the map. This is not fun. Its extremely frustrating. This is my view and maybe I'm seeing this because it seems only the real competitive players are playing on the servers. Any noob who gets on and tries the game with these players.....probably will never come back to play. Many games fail because of this. If you make a game based around a bunch of players opinions that are really good at the game....you are bound to have a game that only they will end up playing! I have 7 years almost every single day playing UT3...and to play this current game is very difficult and truthfully not fun.

[code187]

Megasporwic i can see where your coming form, the game is not yet open to the general public. Its just hardcore fans at this stage most with 15 years of experience. There will be a match making system their adding ranks now and skill levels etc.

When new plays try it they will be playing against other new players so it will all be ok.

[Megasporwic]

I hear what your saying code187.

[Infiadux]

I voted for Raxxy/Brizz prototype, but as Stolid noted, I don't really use slide much and only care about the faster dodge speed and higher gravity that this mutator provides. That's why it's a better starting point for me, in fact I'd say it's really close to perfect now.

The only problem I see is that you can spam dodges too often. As Stolid said, it might be hard to keep track of other players when they constantly dodge all over the place. A faster dodge speed, but one you can't spam as much, is easier to keep track of, yet still lets you dodge things well, and makes movement in first person feel fast. IMO that's the direction we should be moving in.

I wouldn't mind starting out with Epic's movement either, though. It's not horrible (although that's what it feels like after playing on a custom movement server ), we just need to boost base movement speed, dodge velocity, and gravity all by around 10%, and that would probably make it feel close to what Brizz's prototype gives us so far.

I think the movement is too complicated. It does a lot of things and does none of them particularly well. I think the problems with the movement ultimately come from the lack of precision caused by the use of a capsule for the player collisions instead of a rectangular box. I don't think the answer is to necessarily speed up or slow down the movement or add new movement options. I think the base movement code and player collisions need to be completely rewritten and the sooner it is done the less painful it will be.

Steve, we're counting on you!

Also, this please. Fix the stupid capsule, it makes things feel really unnatural. I'd much rather have the sharp, defined movement that the rectangular hitbox provided.

[MoxNix]

Standard movement is pretty good now. Minor tweaks sure but nothing like that crazy mutator.

[Nouse4livE]

I have mixed feelings:

Standard Movement:

• dodge & walldoge feel OK for the maps right now.
• sprint is ****.

Sir_Brizz/Raxxy Movement:

• slide feels much better
• dodge & walldoge feel too long, they feel like 2k4 with dogejump.

Bad in both versions:

• Wallslide is useless in its current form, but i belive it can work when polished (faster, a little bit longer, and activated when in air and "pressed" against a wall)

[rAge.]

As I am tdm player, i dont want faster movement. In that mode faster = more spam, you can see that in the games with 6+ players. There are no "safe moments" with fast movement. That's why TDM wasn't very successfull in 2k4 or quake.
I voted for current movement, because it could be very good (it's not yet) with some fixes like increasing air control etc. It's a good start point.