Camping

[Mll]

I'm not sure why, but recently I've joined a lot of games where 4 people in a 5v5 team would sit in their base and camp.
Any thoughts on this? I personally think there should be some sort of counter, such as a radar which lets you see people that have been standing in the same area too long, this would also help flag hunts.

[PayBack]

Was is Halloween Face? Also no to radar, its completely breaks team work and team play. For a team to be good at UT right now they need to communicate and do it well, no one communicates if everyone knows where everyone is. It just removes one more skill set from the game.

[Mll]

Was is Halloween Face? Also no to radar, its completely breaks team work and team play. For a team to be good at UT right now they need to communicate and do it well, no one communicates if everyone knows where everyone is. It just removes one more skill set from the game.

It used to be only face, but camping seems to be becoming a lot more popular.
If you stand in one place without moving too far, then perhaps you deserve to have your position known? If you are playing a new map and one person on the opposing team knows it better, it is easy for them to simply hide in one place in a flag standoff

[PayBack]

It used to be only face, but camping seems to be becoming a lot more popular.
If you stand in one place without moving too far, then perhaps you deserve to have your position known? If you are playing a new map and one person on the opposing team knows it better, it is easy for them to simply hide in one place in a flag standoff

Its just new players who dont know how to play. Historically UT has never really had a problem with camping as the games mechanics dont favor camping at all. Camping works well it games like CSGO/BF/COD because the time to kill is really fast. The time to kill in UT isnt nearly as fast as those games, so generally if you are camping you can get the first shot off, but then you are a sitting duck for the response shots. New players will quickly learn camping tactics dont work in this game.

[Mll]

Generally I'm with you, but infiltrating a base where there's 4 people spamming AOE weapons is difficult, especially when your own team is doing the same thing.
Maps like CTF-Pistola can become impossible to infiltrate, I've played a couple of games where there are 2 near the flag stand, and 2 on the second level. Killing them all and taking the flag before they respawn and come back is near impossible. And most of those rockets go straight to the flag, so picking up and leaving is hard too.

I think something should be done to promote offensive gameplay, or at least, more emphasis on offense in the tutorial. Defensive gameplay works fine when both sides spend the majority of their time inside the base.

[PayBack]

Thats not really camping then in my eyes, thats defense. I consider camping to be someone sitting in a corner shooting people in the back for no other reason than to gain kills. If someone is actively protecting the flag at the same time, then its not camping, its defense. Those people were playing an objective to protect their flag, there are no cheap tricks or such thing as camping if you are playing an objective. Sitting on the top of CTF-Face with a sniper rifle and trying to spawn kill, now thats camping. Spawn killing is camping as well.

The fact is though camping a flag for a whole game is still just a noobie tactic. As players get better and learn the mechanics better they will learn that only sitting in the flag room means they arent as helpful as can be. They arent supporting the flag carrier and they arent controlling the powerups in the middle. Most will learn to play in a more skilled manner. You dont see that the type of defense you described in higher levels of game play so I dont really think its a concern.

[Mll]

I see camping as someone standing in one spot waiting for an enemy to go past, whether its offense, spawn-killing, or finding a niche spot with a sniper rifle. Any of these are less desirable tactics in my eyes.

It still impacts gameplay on normal servers a lot, there isn't generally as much team gameplay, as many people in your team may not even speak your language, so you can't organise an assault on the enemy base properly.
Most of the time, I find that despite the fact there are 3 people of my own team defending, and 4 of theirs, that 1 offence player seems to destroy our defense and makes it past mid before I have time to fall back. Obviously hyperbole, but it often feels this way, and generally, I never see any of my "defensive" players go out of base to get the flag back.

In maps such as titan pass, it seems that no matter how many people camp at base, I can always get the flag and make it past mid, simply because of the nature and openness of the map.
But, as I stated, in maps like Pistola, a defender spawns next to the rocket launcher and simply spams the flag, and the rest of the room isn't much safer either.

I don't see whats wrong with a radar on players who have not moved in a while/stay in the same place pressing WASD. As long as their is a mutator to disable it, it will discourage players from simply sitting in their base and waiting for the pro in their team to do the work for them.

[PayBack]

Well radar was discussed very early in the project and Epic decided that it was not a feature they wanted to include in the game. So if you want it, its going to take a lot more effort on your part besides a forum post to get it included.

[Mll]

That was the first solution that came to mind. I understand that in higher levels of gameplay this isn't a problem, but for us casuals, it can really ruin the mood.

[PayBack]

This really wont be a problem when a proper match making system is in place. If you are a casual with low skill, you will probably be put into a game with people who play like this. If you are a casual with mid to high skill level, the chances of you playing against players like this is very low. Its pre-alpha, so dont expect the gaming experience to stay the same for very long.

[HenrikRyosa]

Camping has always been part of the game, and a "valid tactic". Sure it is annoying a.f. at times, but I also love the satisfaction of finding ways to beat them. In both Face and Pistola, you can.

[MoxNix]

Camping has always been part of the game, and a "valid tactic". Sure it is annoying a.f. at times, but I also love the satisfaction of finding ways to beat them. In both Face and Pistola, you can.

Exactly, nothing wrong with a little camping as long as it can be effectively countered. For anyone who thinks camping has never been very effective in UT go find some old demos of Gitzz on Deck and watch those. If more players could have done that, it would've been a big problem, but really he was about the only one who won major tournaments playing that way.

And of course there's the question of what's the difference between camping and playing defence in team games or strategic positional control in duel/ffa?

Not too long after I first started playing UT I got accused of camping after winning an FFA match one time because I died a lot in the same part of the map. The thing is both my favourite weapon (the only weapon I was very good with at the time) and the 100 armor were in that area. I wasn't camping, I was just trying to get to my best weapon and kept dying near it before I could get out of the area again. I spawned in the same area an awful lot too and so did everyone else, which is part of the reason why I won, me with my best weapon handy (half the time there were 3 or 4 dropped ones just lying there on the ground) and plenty of targets around.

I remember that one well because it was the first time I won a match on that server when all the best of the regulars were there. I was so happy for a few seconds until the accusations started flying. What a bummer!

[Mll]

Generally I'm ok with how it is at the moment, when people camp and shoot from the towers in facing worlds, they often find their face blown off for standing still so long.
My problem is how effective it can be, perhaps this is on the weapons, perhaps its simply being overwhelmed by the amount of players I keep meeting when I infiltrate the enemy base.

Defense is big part of CTF, and the PUG's show it, but lately there doesn't seem to be any rush to try and steal the other flag.
I'm not sure if people are trying to play DM, farm for skulls, enjoy easy kills, or simply don't understand that defense-only tactics aren't that good. But it isn't fun when (and I'm not exaggerating) you spend 3 matches in a row trying to fight off 4 defenders in an enclosed space with rocket launchers.

Maybe that's just life, and I'm willing to accept it. I was just hoping someone would have some ideas to get people to attack.

[HenrikRyosa]

Face has always attracted people who just want to snipe - maybe it would be better as a DM map, but it does also help the team as long as you have a good attacker.

Having said that, there are still issues you rightfully point out, which I'll elaborate on.

I was one of the people who pushed most for roles being added to CTF, and they've sort of done some work to that end although it's purely cosmetic, showing what you were "best at", rather than formally assigning any role. I think it's probably made a difference in the number of people willing to attack and support, but it could still go further in promoting and rewarding support especially.

Too many times I do flag runs and get no help, but I help others as much as I can by watching their backs. The result being that when I flag run and constantly get killed, it doesn't reward me and that is demotivating - I may as well just stay and defend our base only or support other carriers, since it would give me more points and more XP. So I hope that Epic are not satisfied with where they are with it yet.

[MoxNix]

Face has always attracted people who just want to snipe - maybe it would be better as a DM map, but it does also help the team as long as you have a good attacker.

True enough, DM players would sometimes join Face servers just to practice sniping. The real CTF players didn't seem to mind either, at least not on Face.