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    [OFFICIAL] What HUD Elements are needed and why...

    So the new UT has a HUD widget system that allows us to build our HUD in a nice modular fashion. Right now we have implemented most of the DM widgets from UT3 as a temporary solution and now I'd like to get the ball rolling on building the actual HUD for the game. My goal with this thread is to start this process by creating a list of elements needed for each game type and debate and discuss their purpose and importance. I'd like to break the discussion down by answering these questions:

    What HUD widgets are needed for Solo Games?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Duel?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Standard DM?

    What HUD widgets are needed for Team?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Team DM?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for CTF/BR/DOM?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for ONS/ASSAULT?

    On a separate thought what widgets should be made available for spectator HUDs and competitive viewing? Now of course some of the widgets will be unified across all of the game types and there are some widgets that have to be included. For example, you always need to display your health and we are always going to need a weapon bar. I'd like to keep the discussion somewhat higher-level on what's needed and what it's functionality should be vs. how it should look at the moment. Once we get a good list of widgets that we need to build, we can start concepting how they should look.

    #2
    What HUD widgets are needed for Solo Games?
    • A game leaderboard to know who's on top and who's near your place.
    • Minimalitic HUD, 1280x720 should be default resolution so the font size should be notable smaller than UT3. UT3's hud was more minimalist than UT200x.
    • ...

    What HUD widgets are needed for Team?
    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for CTF/BR/DOM?
    Icon representation of the DOM nodes; the player name whos taking the flag/ball

    ... What HUD Widgets are needed for ONS/ASSAULT?
    A list of the current and next game objectives for Assault, Orb carrier




    All these widgets should be adjustable by its size, location and opacity (and read-direction / alignment).

    Needed for team games:
    • InGame clock
      To time game events like when the redeemer will be spawned, a Onslaught/Warfare node is ready, etc.
    • Proper logic for team beacons (not always drawn; optional)
      Team beacons are only important for important information like the health bar for team vehicles but not so important for player names etc.
    • Minimap for objective gametypes (VCTF/ONS/ASSAULT)
      The visible orb/flag carrier on the minimap is essential, a 3D radar is too much. Should be rotatable.
    • Full paper doll
      which shows the armor and health and boots
    • Orb/Flag holding indication
      "You are carrying the enemy flag. Score" / "The enemy team has the flag. Return" / "Return the flag to score"
    • For ingame voice support: A small indication who's talking (not that big image like in UT3/UT2004).


    Additional widgets:
    • A seperate chat console (to be opened) with team colored message (including spectators) should be nce including an option to save the chat history.
    • A list of specator (in HUD or InGame menu)
    • 3D radar (/icon represenation) of game objects for spectators
    • (InGame server browser)


    SpecaturUI (by WGH) for UT3 has some good approachs to improve the spectator Hud.
    ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
    ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

    Comment


      #3
      Keep it simple. Visual clarity and all that. All you need is health/armor status, weapon and ammo count info, and gametype specific info. They should be as simple and clear as possible so that the focus is on the playing field. Previous games all had this, and were sufficient.

      The only new element that is really needed is a crosshair builder. A dot with black outline should be included by default. Seriously, if this doesn't make it in this time I'll be very upset.

      Now spectating is a different matter. I'd like to see an element on the sides for each character. Clicking their name or pressing the number for their character will switch your view to them.
      Last edited by TheWhiteDragon; 06-26-2014, 11:54 AM.
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      Comment


        #4
        Duel: Game timer and each player's score at the top. No need for the Frag count or "frags ahead" on the top right.
        DM: Top three players on the top right of the HUD as well as "frags ahead" if you're in first place and "frags behind" if you're in any other place. But should it be "frags behind" the person in first place or the person in the next place above you?
        TDM: Game timer, team score at the top and center of the HUD.

        CTF/VCTF/WAR: The widget/icon at the top that shows the status of each team's flag/orb should allow for instant comprehension. UT3's was the best, imo. (On stand, being carried, and dropped). I'd like to see the runner's name below it. We already get a temporary "Playername has taken the flag/orb!" towards the right of the HUD, but I'd like to see that be removed and just have the player's name below the widget for the duration of their run. I know we can see the icon on the scoreboard next to the runner's name, but pulling up the scoreboard removes all HUD elements. Also, this should be strictly for team mates. The HUD/Scoreboard should not show the other team which player on your team has their flag/orb.

        I'd also like to see a reset timer for dropped flags and orbs (the orb already has this but it shows up on the orb itself and not on a HUD element/widget). Again though, just for your team mates.

        Will the weapon count as a widget? I play with weapons off but I'd like to have the Translocator show up since it's the only "weapon" that actually gives visual feedback on its utility - the disc inside it. Sometimes I'll fire it, get caught up in a skirmish and then forget if I left it somewhere or if it's in the Translocator. I know I could just left or right click to tell, but I'd much rather see its status immediately. I supposed this could be done as a Translocator-specific widget on the HUD so as to keep "hidden weapons" more consistent. Thoughts?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by TheWhiteDragon View Post
          Keep it simple. Visual clarity and all that. All you need is health/armor status, weapon and ammo count info, and gametype specific info. They should be as simple and clear as possible so that the focus is on the playing field. Previous games all had this, and were sufficient.

          The only new element that is really needed is a crosshair builder. A dot with black outline should be included by default. Seriously, if this doesn't make it in this time I'll be very upset.

          Now spectating is a different matter. I'd like to see an element on the sides for each character. Clicking their name or pressing the number for their character will switch your view to them.
          I agree with this. At worst, can we just get custom crosshair textures back like 2k3? At best, hopefully an in game builder/importer for custom ones.

          I would also like to have weapons have a few options for display like picture, no picture. Color coded meters, or something along those lines.
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          Comment


            #6
            SmartCTF from UT99 is a good example of a CTF scoreboard
            Smart CTF example
            Flag kills, flag covers, flag captures, etc. Also the differentiation between frags/points (71/125 == 71 frags and 125 points).
            Having your flag carrier's zone location displayed in the hud beside their name is also a feature I would miss.

            DM doesn't have any team objectives to provide context for special kills like flag covers, etc. Things like assists, headshots, air kills, weapon kill tallies, kill streak tallies (longest kill streak), powerup control (number of belts, amp time, etc) could be cool. Just spitballing. A smart ctf style line-bar for total Damage Dealt (in comparison to other players) would be interesting for FFA/TDM. Efficiency is a staple of stock UT scoreboards, so I probably don't have to mention it. Both kills and deaths; similar to efficiency but also nice to know.

            DOM scoreboard: each player should have running points total for each control point. contextual kills could include things like defensive kills (kills when near a cp)
            Smart scoreboard for dom example
            You can see the powerup control information in this one


            edit: as a ctf player a cool feature would be pinning certain fields to a place on the screen. For example, I'm attacking with 2-3 other players; I might enjoy pinning their zone location fields to the right side of my screen so we can coordinate our attacks.
            Last edited by histortion; 06-26-2014, 01:24 PM.
            "History is written by the victors"

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by histortion View Post
              SmartCTF from UT99 is a good example of a CTF scoreboard
              Smart CTF example
              Flag kills, flag covers, flag captures, etc. Also the differentiation between frags/points (71/125 == 71 frags and 125 points).
              Having your flag carrier's zone location displayed in the hud beside their name is also a feature I would miss.

              DM doesn't have any team objectives to provide context for special kills like flag covers, etc. Things like assists, headshots, air kills, weapon kill tallies, kill streak tallies (longest kill streak), powerup control (number of belts, amp time, etc) could be cool. Just spitballing. A smart ctf style line-bar for total Damage Dealt (in comparison to other players) would be interesting for FFA/TDM. Efficiency is a staple of stock UT scoreboards, so I probably don't have to mention it. Both kills and deaths; similar to efficiency but also nice to know.

              DOM scoreboard: each player should have running points total for each control point. contextual kills could include things like defensive kills (kills when near a cp)
              Smart scoreboard for dom example
              You can see the powerup control information in this one
              I agree we should have something like Smart scoreboard especially for team game types.

              The HUD should be simple with interchangeable fonts. Arial/Times new Roman/etc. Whatever font looks simple would be fine. There should also be a HUD editor in the options for players to adjust their HUD icons to where they prefer.
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              Comment


                #8
                One thing I'd like to see in regards to widgets is the separation between different types of messages. For instance, have player chat and voice messages/taunts on the left side, and game messages ("X killed Y with Z") on the right. Actually, maybe taunts can go to the right as well, while informational voice messages ("Enemy flag carrier in the red base") could be on the left. That way there is a separation between the potentially important information and flavour text.
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                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok

                  Firstly there's a distinction between what players need and what players want, some of this comes down to vanity

                  Some of it is just lazyness, i think having the ability to set different hud systems and change these on the fly will help

                  IE a weapons player will need more from the HUD than an instagib only player

                  In terms of things

                  Weapons bar
                  Health+armor
                  Ammo
                  A team score/flag status bar
                  Chat area

                  Score area, IE anything from points only to frags+anything else

                  I wouldn't mind seeing frags, grabs, flagskills, covers, seals, caps and assists in a CTF game if it was also small and neat in the corner by my point count, for example

                  Players are vain, they want to be able to see their weapon accuracy in game, how many kills they have

                  It doesn't come down to each mod, it comes down to each player, so put in as many options as possible, make a default standard and let players modify the rest
                  Last edited by tigerclaw; 06-27-2014, 01:59 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Let's see...
                    • Health/armor status
                      This includes the usual generic player icon that shows what kind of items you wear, i.e. armor parts and jump boots.
                    • Weapon bar
                      This includes weapon icons, relative ammo amount as little bar below the icon, and the slot number or bound key. The default mode should only show the weapons the player actually has, but when growing the map to its maximum size, the full weapon bar could be displayed, including weapons the player doesn't have.
                    • Selected weapon's ammo counter and additional information (charge, secondary ammo, etc.)
                      This one may become optional if all weapons include ammo counters or other visual information about the remaining ammo.
                    • A chat area
                      Player names here should always be displayed in team colors and spectators should be considered a different "team" than DM players in that regard. No death messages here, please.
                    • Kill message area
                      Kill messages get boring after a while and for many game modes they just clutter the chat area, so they should definitely go to a separate area. Maybe they could even be expressed as icons between the killer and victim names (which must definitely be team-colored), though that obviously requires appropriate and recognizable icons for each damage type.
                    • Game event messages
                      These are mostly centered on the screen, though objective hints may be placed somewhere else, like UT3 did with the objective instructions.
                    • [non-team modes] player ranking and spread
                      This only really makes sense on non-team modes, where individual players fight for the top place on the scoreboard. Other modes than DM may wish to add more information here, e.g. remaining lives in LMS. Then again, the team score area may also be available for that.
                    • [team modes] team scores
                      This is quite obvious - if there are teams, their scores should be shown in a way that lets you know which team is currently in front.
                    • [modes with bases] indicator telling the direction to the base(s)
                      In (v)CTF that would obviously be the flag bases, in Onslaught that would be the power cores, in BR the goals, in Jailbreak the release switches, etc. I could imagine somehow also showing the direction to all Domination points. The most obvious place for the team-specific base indicators would be the team score widget, as it has been since UT2003.
                    • [modes with objectives that change state] objective state indicator
                      Flags, bombs, orbs, domination points, jail release switches - they all are in various states based on what players did with them. The state is gameplay relevant, so it should be shown on the HUD. team-specific object states (flags, orbs, release switches) may be integrated in the team score widgets, neutral object states (bomb, dom points) might be placed between or below the team score widgets or maybe even somewhere else, if it makes sense.
                    • A minimap. (IMHO that is an entire topic of its own)
                      This one may reside on the HUD, if it makes sense for the game type. For example in Onslaught, the huge number of nodes cannot be displayed in an reasonable way using the "object state" approach. I don't think VCTF needs a minimap unless it also shows information about available vehicles.
                      Jailbreak 200x, however, opted for a perspective minimap on the scoreboard. That way, the map wasn't limited to an overhead view, but could be arranged so even maps with more Z-axis were represented in a meaningful way. The map was placed on the scoreboard instead of the HUD, because it was meant as a way to learn the map and track your teammates when really needed. Most of the time, you'd not need the map, so placing it on the scoreboard was a way to make it accessible only when the player/spectator wanted to see it. The scoreboard was also designed in a way to not obstruct the view and render the crosshair - you could essentially activate the scoreboard and keep playing while having a look at the minimap. Many HUD features were missing, of course, but you could get to know the map and the possible routes.
                    • Team member status indicators.
                      On larger maps and in certain game modes, information on the status of team members may be useful to have on the HUD. Teammate' health and armor, as well as their position (location string, direction indicator, dot on the minimap, etc.) can be useful information when planning the next steps in a competitive match. This widget should be kept reasonably small. The TAM/Freon version was okay, but maybe the entire thing could be even a little less prominent. This one may also be interesting for spectators.

                    Those are a lot of details, but some of them may be better placed on the scoreboard. To make that more useful, I propose a more transparent layout, similar to what we created for Jailbreak 200x.
                    Last edited by Wormbo; 06-26-2014, 03:41 PM.
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                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                      Let's see...
                      • Health/armor status
                        This includes the usual generic player icon that shows what kind of items you wear, i.e. armor parts and jump boots.
                      • Weapon bar
                        This includes weapon icons, relative ammo amount as little bar below the icon, and the slot number or bound key. The default mode should only show the weapons the player actually has, but when growing the map to its maximum size, the full weapon bar could be displayed, including weapons the player doesn't have.
                      • Selected weapon's ammo counter and additional information (charge, secondary ammo, etc.)
                        This one may become optional if all weapons include ammo counters or other visual information about the remaining ammo.
                      • A chat area
                        Player names here should always be displayed in team colors and spectators should be considered a different "team" than DM players in that regard. No death messages here, please.
                      • Kill message area
                        Kill messages get boring after a while and for many game modes they just clutter the chat area, so they should definitely go to a separate area. Maybe they could even be expressed as icons between the killer and victim names (which must definitely be team-colored), though that obviously requires appropriate and recognizable icons for each damage type.
                      • Game event messages
                        These are mostly centered on the screen, though objective hints may be placed somewhere else, like UT3 did with the objective instructions.
                      • [non-team modes] player ranking and spread
                        This only really makes sense on non-team modes, where individual players fight for the top place on the scoreboard.
                      • [team modes] team scores
                        This is quite obvious - if there are teams, their scores should be shown in a way that lets you know which team is currently in front.
                      • [modes with bases] indicator telling the direction to the base(s)
                        In (v)CTF that would obviously be the flag bases, in Onslaught that would be the power cores, in BR the goals, in Jailbreak the release switches, etc. I could imagine somehow also showing the direction to all Domination points. The most obvious place for the team-specific base indicators would be the team score widget, as it has been since UT2003.
                      • [modes with objectives that change state] objective state indicator
                        Flags, bombs, orbs, domination points, jail release switches - they all are in various states based on what players did with them. The state is gameplay relevant, so it should be shown on the HUD. team-specific object states (flags, orbs, release switches) may be integrated in the team score widgets, neutral object states (bomb, dom points) might be placed between or below the team score widgets or maybe even somewhere else, if it makes sense.
                      • A minimap. (IMHO that is an entire topic of its own)
                        This one may reside on the HUD, if it makes sense for the game type. For example in Onslaught, the huge number of nodes cannot be displayed in an reasonable way using the "object state" approach. I don't think VCTF needs a minimap unless it also shows information about available vehicles.
                        Jailbreak 200x, however, opted for a perspective minimap on the scoreboard. That way, the map wasn't limited to an overhead view, but could be arranged so even maps with more Z-axis were represented in a meaningful way. The map was placed on the scoreboard instead of the HUD, because it was meant as a way to learn the map and track your teammates when really needed. Most of the time, you'd not need the map, so placing it on the scoreboard was a way to make it accessible only when the player/spectator wanted to see it. The scoreboard was also designed in a way to not obstruct the view and render the crosshair - you could essentially activate the scoreboard and keep playing while having a look at the minimap. Many HUD features were missing, of course, but you could get to know the map and the possible routes.
                      • Team status indicators.
                        On larger maps and in certain game modes, information on the status of team members may be useful to have on the HUD. Teammate' health and armor, as well as their position (location string, direction indicator, dot on the minimap, etc.) can be useful information when planning the next steps in a competitive match. This widget should be kept reasonably small. The TAM/Freon version was okay, but maybe the entire thing could be even a little less prominent.

                      Those are a lot of details, but some of them may be better placed on the scoreboard. To make that more useful, I propose a more transparent layout, similar to what we created for Jailbreak 200x.
                      Events: Well the special kills, sprees, and who took your flag at the top. The messages that says "you have the flag (...)" and "The enemy has your flag(...)" at the bottom center.
                      For the Jailbreak, did the map show where the players were?
                      Kill Messages: I think it should be toggle on/off.

                      Will this game have the in-game TS (idk what it is called) or will it use TS? I think there needs a spot for that to see who is speaking, most likely it will be on the left side.
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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by SDAHeatWave View Post
                        For the Jailbreak, did the map show where the players were?
                        Move your mouse cursor onto that blue text at the end of the text you quoted from my post and press the left mouse button.
                        Last edited by Wormbo; 06-26-2014, 03:56 PM.
                        <elmuerte> you shouldn't do all-nighters, it's a waste of time and effort
                        <TNSe> nono
                        <TNSe> its always funny to find code a week later you dont even remember writing
                        <Pfhoenix> what's worse is when you have a Star Wars moment
                        <Pfhoenix> "Luke! I am your code!" "No! Impossible! It can't be!"
                        <@Mych|Lockdown> ...and the award for the most creative spelling of "Jailbreak" goes to ... "Gandis Jealbrake Server"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Power-up timers for competitive viewing. Maybe Ammo also.

                          Don't start a quake vs ut argument. Just an hud example
                          Last edited by TimEh; 06-26-2014, 04:02 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            General HUD Elements:
                            - Game clock
                            - Weapon Bar (maybe only have it so the weapon bar populates only with weapons the player has in inventory)
                            - Chat log/Kill log/Player Streak log (all scrolling in the same area?)
                            - Player card for health, armor, pickups, etc.

                            What HUD widgets are needed for Solo Games?
                            ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Duel?
                            - Both Player's score on top of the screen (red team vs. blue team style) with game clock

                            ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Standard DM?
                            - Two player scores: The top scorer and the player's. If player is top scorer, then show player score as top scorer and the next best score

                            What HUD widgets are needed for Team?
                            ... What HUD Widgets are needed for Team DM?
                            - Red vs Blue Team score
                            - Team mate location and status (sort of similar to UTComp Team overlay - I believe it only needs to show team mate location and if they're dead by graying out the names or something)

                            ... What HUD Widgets are needed for CTF/BR/DOM?
                            - Red vs Blue Team score
                            - Team mate location and status similar to TDM above but for CTF/BR, it should probably also indicate which of them is the flag/ball carrier somehow
                            Last edited by jayoplus; 06-26-2014, 04:02 PM.
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                              #15
                              As long as the new HUD(s) don't look like an MMO HUD with all kinds of stuff falling just short of having a dashboard jesus as well

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