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    #16
    I'd say going with the Red/Blue/Green/Gold is the way to go, because it has always been like this and people are used to this. Because of the tournaments and stuff red was always your color. I think throughout the years players minds may have been programmed to interpret red as a "good" color and this is what they would expect from another UT game. Other colors would just feel weird.

    Like, you could set your preferred team and HUD color in previous games. I always had the HUD colored in team colors for team games. That is the best indication you can get of what team you are on, other than text with team color telling you which team you are on, like in UT99, or simply the announcer telling you what team you are on, like in UT3 (At the beginning of the game always "Play! You are on Red!").
    Last edited by InVader; 07-06-2014, 02:55 PM.
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      #17
      I'd much prefer enemy based colours. Tribes Ascend for example, enemy is always red, team mates are always blue.

      The team's are called Blood Eagle and Diamond Sword, you could easily have something similar in UT with Human / Skaarj / Robot etc. Doesn't really matter what skins people are using and whether they match the current team name.

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        #18
        Adding more to the mix will not make it easier, but harder.

        Your Team Name should be the same as your Team Color. That is EASY to keep track of and mappers have been, for the most part, making team based maps that help let you know where you are.
        Calling a Team Alpha or Thundercrash is only going to be confusing as it changes every game. Figuring out if I am Red, Blue, Green, Pink or Gold, aand what color the enemy team is using is pretty easy though.

        Could there be assets that are put in maps that change color according to team and would that help? Yes. I would like to see that too. So that Team Symbols, Team Flags, Lights or Directionals were all team colored.

        Ultimately I think a combination of Team Colors and the ability to use a 'bright-skin' type option would be the best. I don't like brightskins and have not used them very much, but I understand the option and use in competitive UT and that others like to use them too.

        Dont know if it has been suggested, but if it is the Red team that is the main problem, why not just make the default teams Green and Blue, or Blue and Gold?
        Last edited by UnrealGrrl; 07-10-2014, 12:08 PM.
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          #19
          Personally I think we should eliminate traditional team colors as much as possible. If we stick to red, blue, or whatever color, there is always the risk of one team blending in with the colors of a map. I'd prefer to use UE4's PBR muscle and switch to full on metallic colors. Something that pops visibly from the level. I'd think silver and gold would work the best. In the past we'd always end up relying on glow skins with built in illumination. I'd rather leave the lights in the level and not on the players.

          Yeah, it's true that some levels will have a lot of metal in them, but that doesn't mean they would match. You could literally reserve the use of silver and gold metal, the actual physical properties of those actual metals, for team colors. Aluminium, iron, steel, all have different physical attributes that will differentiate each one from the rest.
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            #20
            Originally posted by DeathBooger View Post
            Personally I think we should eliminate traditional team colors as much as possible. If we stick to red, blue, or whatever color, there is always the risk of one team blending in with the colors of a map. I'd prefer to use UE4's PBR muscle and switch to full on metallic colors. Something that pops visibly from the level. I'd think silver and gold would work the best. In the past we'd always end up relying on glow skins with built in illumination. I'd rather leave the lights in the level and not on the players.

            Yeah, it's true that some levels will have a lot of metal in them, but that doesn't mean they would match. You could literally reserve the use of silver and gold metal, the actual physical properties of those actual metals, for team colors. Aluminium, iron, steel, all have different physical attributes that will differentiate each one from the rest.

            This is a great idea and I would love to see it if possible. I was thinking about Silver & Gold when wondering what would work/stand out best. For 4 team we could have Copper, Amber, Bronze etc.
            But wondering, Are these shiny silver/gold colors and how would they work on Models like a Nali or Skaarj , Anuban or Hellion etc. that is not wearing alot of armor or clothes?
            Sioux
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              #21
              Metallic is more a property of a material than its color. Also, I shudder at the thought of every single player model being chromed in team games.

              We're looking for a color contrast that avoids or mitigates color blindness issues right off the bat, and still look good in contrast. Wormbo's suggestions really do work well. A blue-violet, and yellow-orange for primary team colors. A strong blue-green for a third, and maybe just white for a fourth. So long as skins are built with brighter areas of team color than their base texture these should stand out well.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Vailias View Post
                Metallic is more a property of a material than its color. Also, I shudder at the thought of every single player model being chromed in team games.

                We're looking for a color contrast that avoids or mitigates color blindness issues right off the bat, and still look good in contrast. Wormbo's suggestions really do work well. A blue-violet, and yellow-orange for primary team colors. A strong blue-green for a third, and maybe just white for a fourth. So long as skins are built with brighter areas of team color than their base texture these should stand out well.

                ahhhh ok, this does make more sense, especially when I re-read this from Wormbos post... I like it. Thanks!


                Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                (Moved from the UT3 UX thread.)

                When it comes to team colors I always like to consider how to handle more than two teams. When there are only two teams, you are pretty free to pick any two colors from the entire available range. With three teams you already need to pick more carefully and with four teams you may already have difficulties picking unique-enough colors. The big mistake in UT1 was that three base colors (red, blue, green) were picked and a fourth had to be added that was distinct, yet "obvious" - yellow/gold.
                Suggestion for three fixed team colors: Orange, violet (more towards blue) and greenish-cyan (slightly towards green).
                Suggestion for four fixed team colors:Orange, blue (slightly towards green), greenish-cyan (slightly towards green) and some kind of purple.
                I can already see the comments though. "Why am I Mr. Pink?!"
                Sioux
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Vailias View Post
                  Metallic is more a property of a material than its color.
                  It's entirely possible to define a team material instead of just a color. You could probably define teams with different camo shapes as well.


                  An alternative, and probably the method with the least disadvantages, is to have a post-process shader that corrects colors to be more distinguishable for various types of colorblindness. Separate selectable modes for green blindness, red blindness, and blue blindness would address everything (short of monochromacy) without putting any demands on team or level design.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                    Suggestion for three fixed team colors: Orange, violet (more towards blue) and greenish-cyan (slightly towards green).
                    Suggestion for four fixed team colors:Orange, blue (slightly towards green), greenish-cyan (slightly towards green) and some kind of purple.
                    Thats actually a really interesting choice of colours, if orange is to be own team I dont think the issue of blending in will occur but I only see orange being mildly better than red. It does also depend on map lighting, blue and yellowish lights seem to be the more popular option which makes perhaps cyan and blue harder to see against cement/metal tones vs orange/purple/violet. I dont think there is a perfect solution but I can understand peoples views on the red, even in TF2 on 2Fort, red gets an advantage in the shadows because against the red/brown wood they blend in more than blue against the cement.

                    Despite that, there is this article, I wish I could find the full break downs: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007...o-predictable/

                    "What’s slightly odder is the breakdown of which side wins most frequently on each map. BLU has the edge in every killing field except Dustbowl and Gravelpit. Why? How? I thought we were all the same! **** you for not being neater, demographics."
                    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 07-11-2014, 09:41 AM.
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                      #25
                      Unless they only end up remapping all colors in the frame buffer, players should be able to see their teammates and enemies in their fixed colors of choice, if colors are even used. Maybe most of us are thinking of bright skins where the entire skin is painted; not sure they're thinking in that direction. Maybe players end up having a green and purple sash, like the Drazi in Babylon 5. :>

                      With multiple enemy teams, you can choose to set them all to the same enemy color, if you wish.

                      Supporting Color Vision Deficiencies

                      Use a color remapping pass on the frame buffer (globally) and/or allowing players to be in control of relative (player perspective) and absolute (spectator perspective) team colors.

                      Hit Effect Consequence

                      * Flashing colors on players when hit must be taken into consideration
                      * Weapon color effects (lower saturation levels/less vibrant?)

                      Level Design Consequence

                      * Painting the level with absolute team colors is not recommended
                      * Programmatically updated materials should be used where team colors are used

                      HUD Helpers

                      * Symbol to indicate whether in enemy/team area, and/or a color indicator unless it becomes too distracting.

                      Once more the Player will rule the color choice, and we shall have peace.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by rejecht View Post
                        Maybe most of us are thinking of bright skins where the entire skin is painted; not sure they're thinking in that direction.
                        Not at all. I'm thinking of UT2004-style "bright" skins (i.e. just lots of team color on the skin) applied in the same way as the UT3 Necris team skin colors (i.e. the skin only defines the areas and strength of the team color). There could be an additional distance-based overlay component as for UT3 non-Necris skins.

                        I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "color remapping pass on the frame buffer", because I interpret that as "the scene has been rendered and now a filter is applied to change red to blue". I doubt it would work well enough to achieve the intended effect. That kind of remapping would probably even compress color information, so it would have to be fine-tuned not only for every kind of color vision deficiency, but likely also for every map individually.

                        I do agree with and support the programmatically updated team colors. But forcing all enemy teams to the same color would be counter-intuitive. You have to be able to distinguish between the teams, even if only to know whether they might attack each other or will focus entirely on you. I already gave a potential solution in the post Mons and UnrealGrrl partially quoted:
                        Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                        Enemy-based team colors might be a good way to go as long as you don't play on a map with team bases. Similar to the UT3 Betrayal mode (or I guess World of Tanks as mentioned by the OP), your own team could be blue (locally), while the enemy team(s) could be displayed in colors ranging from yellow over orange and red to purple. Enemy colors are team-specific, but not team-fixed. Or your team is orange and the enemy team colors range from green/cyan over blue to purple. Or generally you pick your preferred team color from the color circle and the game calculates enemy team colors spread across the opposite half of the circle. (That's for deathmatchy game modes, like TDM, TAM or Domination, without team bases.) If your teammates always appear in the same color for you, you are less likely to shoot them by accident and you can pick a color you can easily distinguish from other team colors.
                        Then again, Onslaught/Warfare maps were (usually) not designed with team colors. In UT2004 they used flags and similar special objects that automatically applied team colors and team symbols based on who owned a node or core base. Obviously that will not really work with team-specific lighting.
                        Essentially you pick one or two team colors (for your own team or a hue to base the enemy teams' colors on or both) from a color wheel and the game generates appropriate colors for all teams that are distinguished, but mostly adhere to your choice of colors.
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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                          I'm thinking of UT2004-style "bright" skins (i.e. just lots of team color on the skin) applied in the same way as the UT3 Necris team skin colors (i.e. the skin only defines the areas and strength of the team color).
                          I assume most people here, including myself, expect some form of UTComp/QuakeLive overlay, but from the latest UT discussion (it was only mentioned as a side comment) I get the impression they don't want that, and I can understand why from an aesthetic point of view. It depends, as you pointed out here or in another thread, on how consistent they make the colors bleed through the characters. They could perhaps add a Mr/Ms Unrealverse sash.

                          Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                          But forcing all enemy teams to the same color would be counter-intuitive.
                          Not if you want to blindly kill enemies. Color distinction made no sense to me in 3/4-TDM, but it does in 3/4-CTF.

                          Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                          "the scene has been rendered and now a filter is applied to change red to blue"
                          The gist of it is: if colors are used to convey something important, it's the responsibility of the designer to avoid clashing important colors that would end up equally bright with the various CVDs. The recommended approach is to use different shapes or patterns to differentiate between something; for example, maybe one team area could have rounded edges, the other rigid edges. Remapping colors will help and must exist for the various CVDs.

                          I found an example in the form of a Chrome extension. See the image examples.
                          http://www.daltonize.org/2010/05/chr...ity-in_13.html

                          Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
                          Essentially you pick one or two team colors (for your own team or a hue to base the enemy teams' colors on or both) from a color wheel and the game generates appropriate colors for all teams that are distinguished, but mostly adhere to your choice of colors.
                          Sure. I just didn't see a reason for preventing players from overriding the colors, even if it was to use the same color for all enemy teams.

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                            #28
                            For years, even game modes like CTF (i. e. modes which have team bases) are played with changeable team/enemy based skin colours. If you don't get on which team you are - dare I say: if you're too stupid to figure it out -, better don't touch the skin's colours and leave them were they are so they fit levels' designs. Really, preventing confusion due to changeable colours is a total non-argument in my opinion.
                            Last edited by ramses; 07-13-2014, 09:09 AM.

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                              #29
                              and maybe it is just me, but it has only been in rare cases over the years that i ever had any issue knowing who was on my team or not... and to give full disclosure, i played 75% CTF over the years in Unreal MP, UT, 2kx and UT3 followed by some DM/TDM and other Mods like Jailbreak.
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                                #30
                                If we're going to be able to pick character colors/tints, one evolution of this is to allow players to use fixed colors for enemies and teammates, meaning it doesn't matter what team you are on, because enemies are always Color A and teammates are always Color B.

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