Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Curiously missing spectator features (it's 2015 guys)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Curiously missing spectator features (it's 2015 guys)

    Edit: Curiously missing spectator features in ALL UT GAMES dating from 99 forward. I am not griping about the fact that it isn't in the current build, but rather that it hasn't been in any past iterations, and would like to see features added to the game. Apparently there was some misunderstanding with my presentation.

    Premise: Let's add user friendly spectator features to UT4 BY THE END OF DEVELOPMENT...


    Story time

    I was a-parousing some servers this evening. Click this one, "hmm, zaccubus and pixeltwitch dueling, let's check it out!" I clicked join. The screen just sat there, so I went back to server browser, I clicked join again, when I remembered, "oh yes, in ut you have to press the spectate BUTTON to spectate a game when the slots are full... " You see, in any other game, tf2, cs:go, even quake live, you can join a game, and select either to play or to spectate after you've joined the server. This allows people to get into the game as quickly as possible, and to transition between watching, chatting, or playing whenever they wish without having to disconnect from the server to do so.

    I joined as a spectator, it started as a free camera that can be flown through the air at my whim. Once I clicked it allowed me to follow pixeltwitch. Another click of the mouse and I was following zaccubus, and I marveled at the smooth transition between cameras. But I was only able to watch from third person, and there was no direction on screen to tell me how to watch first person perspective, and I want to see zaccubus do all his godlike wall-dodging in all its first person glory. Luckily for me I know all about UT's console commands so I type in the console, "behindview 0".

    /Story time



    So, we're catering to a new audience with UT4. This audience has played a lot of other games with full features. Some of UT's features are hidden to the casual observer, features that they'll never find unless they research them. Spectating a game shouldn't be this arduous. Here are my beefs/suggestions

    Beef 1: Allow the "JOIN" button to bring you into the server. You are presented with a menu where you can select to either: Join Game or :Spectate. This allows you to join the server no matter what you intend to do on the server. This will also allow people who are spectation to switch to player when they desire to. This happens often in UT99 duel servers. A few people will hang out, chat, watch 2 players duel, maybe even coach a new player. When the winner wants to play the next player, the spectator must rejoin the server as a player.

    This is not intuitive in 2015. Back in the day, joining servers by your friends IP, connecting to your 56k modem, this made sense, but If I'm connected the server I should be able to play if there is an open player slot.

    Beef 2: SPECTATOR OPTIONS ON SCREEN!/ELIMINATE NEED FOR CONSOLE KNOWLEDGE BY INCLUDING AN INTERFACE!!! Counter Strike 1.6 even had this feature. If you are spectating, spacebar rotates through first person, third person following, third person free look, and free camera. Clicking rotates through all the players on a team. These same features can be found in CS:GO. Not only are there hotkeys that do all of these things, but there is also a dropdown menu that you can open to select which player and which camera at the same time. This is a very intuitive way to watch the player you want from the perspective of your choice very quickly. I used to watch a friend of mine who was killer with the deagle, and I could jump to him immediately.

    Currently in UT, I have to cycle through all the players on the server, find the one I want, and then cover the screen with the console and type behindview 0. This has been the same since UT99. In UT4, we're trying to draw in a new audience who isn't going to know the console commands, nor care about the console commands, because in 2015 a player shouldn't need a form of programming language to play a game. They should be able to hop in and know what the features are so that they can use them as they wish.

    Adding a spectator menu will help encourage more viewing of the game, more community, more streaming of games, but it also helps new players, gives them a friendly environment to hang out, and helps them learn the game. That's how I learned ut99 was by hanging out in duels spectating. And hell, sometimes I just like watching someone else wreck face


    All that to say this, It's 2015. UT Needs a user friendly spectator mode! (but really just needs to be user friendly in general!)
    Last edited by nanthil; 01-03-2015, 07:51 PM.

    #2
    Originally posted by chumb0 View Post
    Without focusing on the downsides of this (the server overhead and bandwidth) i'll give my thoughts.

    We've talked about this a few times and Unreal Tournament, in all of its games, has lacked in the spectator aspect of the game. Previous UT games have been buggy and lacking features for example UT99's inability to do a fluid first person view, UT3 bugs with weapon showing to name but a few. So it's certainly something that has to improve in Unreal Tournament.

    The ability to use a replay feature would be very very exciting indeed. It's something never seen before in a FPS and it would give game coverage an entire new level. To be able to switch back or even put a 'stub' in a slider so that point of time can be reverted to at any given time is fantastic. It would allow coverage of key moments, and brilliant frags, for casters to cover during 'downtime' periods of matches.

    Muli-Pov would be very interesting indeed. You can cover the POV of two duelers at any one time and give the audience a much greater view of what each player is doing at any time and being able to predict next encounters. It would very much assist helping the audience with what's going on in the game. One of the major problems in watching arena based fps games for new players (you see it alot at covered esports events) is that they have no idea what's going on and why they're doing it. Multi Pov would make it alot easier to explain.

    The ability to use it as a training tool for players to examine higher skilled player movement and decisions would again keep new players interested. We've also talked about a 'ghost' system to allow players to review games in that way, perhaps this could be implemented also.

    All in all, if it's feasible to do this kind of in depth spectator mode, it should be very highly considered.
    I know some of this has been mentioned in another thread, but this is more about how a majority of people are going to use the game. The general end user, the ability to play and hangout as you see fit, and just general interface suggestions vs what features should be included or not included, and streaming/casting.
    Last edited by nanthil; 01-02-2015, 03:33 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      Believe it or not, but devs certainly aware it's 2015. They have limited resources and busy with other things. You can check release notes for builds, if you really interested how the progress is going.
      It's still pre-alpha version of a game. It's good thing that you post your ideas, but tone down the attitude a bit.

      Comment


        #4
        Attitude? The whole thing was supposed to be comedic and light hearted man. If it came across as negative I apologize.


        Yes I'm aware they're doing other things and that it's prealpha. If you read the whole thing, this has been some thing that hasn't changed since the original ut, and I was suggesting changes. All the smileys and exaggerated language should have been funny.

        Sorry

        Maybe reread it with a silly clown voice?
        Last edited by nanthil; 01-02-2015, 04:48 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          You talk like the game is already released, or it will be ready any time soon.

          Quite simply the game is still Pre-Alpha (bare-bones and raw) so more important things come first.
          Comedic or not, your suggestion is "Moot" because it is not as relevant now as making the actual content first (you know, stuff for spectators to actually see, and players to use).
          Everything is subject to change and there are far bigger problems to deal with, like mutators, mods, reliable builds and stability.

          UT is "the" arena game, and very obviously speculating will be a a huge part of it. Just let the devs make something to watch first.
          When the game is at Alpha or more likely Beta, we will see all the GUI, Lobby and Spectator modes get polished.
          Don't forget, all the Epic UT devs are volunteers and still work at Epic where they also have other projects to work on between this freebie.
          Who wants a UT99 FOOD FIGHT ?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dr.Flay View Post
            You talk like the game is already released, or it will be ready any time soon.

            Quite simply the game is still Pre-Alpha (bare-bones and raw) so more important things come first.
            Comedic or not, your suggestion is "Moot" because it is not as relevant now as making the actual content first (you know, stuff for spectators to actually see, and players to use).
            Everything is subject to change and there are far bigger problems to deal with, like mutators, mods, reliable builds and stability.

            UT is "the" arena game, and very obviously speculating will be a a huge part of it. Just let the devs make something to watch first.
            When the game is at Alpha or more likely Beta, we will see all the GUI, Lobby and Spectator modes get polished.
            Don't forget, all the Epic UT devs are volunteers and still work at Epic where they also have other projects to work on between this freebie.

            I'm not speaking as if the game is released yet. I'm speaking as someone who is eager to bring new people into the game, and think that a better user interface for spectating would be useful. Even in UT3 the spectator features were not apparent, and you needed console commands to really make a viewable spectating experience. That was 2007, the point isn't moot because like everyone else, I would like to see certain features implemented.

            I wasn't suggesting "Ytf is this feature not in YET" but rather, let's have this feature implemented by the end of development.

            I don't know how this was miscommunicated.

            My story went as such. "I used the game, experienced problem x, if we implement suggestion y into the game it will make it better." That is the basic premise of just about every thread on this forum.

            I ended with "it's 2015, ut needs a user friendly spectator mode." As in, let's add it to the game because every other iteration of the game has not had it, so let's do it in this one. I don't understand the miscommunication here.

            Edit: And for the record, there IS something to watch, and in using the game for spectating myself, what I wrote in the OP are features I would like to see added to make it easier to do and more intuitive to new players from other games.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD9VnIDduX0
            Last edited by nanthil; 01-03-2015, 07:54 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              We have a LOT of plans for spectator modes, casting support, streaming, and all things related... but limited resources at the moment. So we'd love to hear your input as to what features you think are important, as that will help shape the future of things as much as any gameplay and weapon balance feedback ever could.
              Jim Brown
              @EntropicDev
              Epic Games

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                We have a LOT of plans for spectator modes, casting support, streaming, and all things related... but limited resources at the moment. So we'd love to hear your input as to what features you think are important, as that will help shape the future of things as much as any gameplay and weapon balance feedback ever could.


                I think primarily, combining the spectate and join feature, with an option once you connect to either spectate or join the match was suggestion no 1. Join a match of cs go. A splash page comes up, you are presented with a ad screen, where you click ok to get past, you are presented with 2 options, "Join" or "spectate". Join takes you to team selection, spectate allows you to watch.

                Suggestion number 2 was essentially providing on screen cues to guide someone who's never used the game on how to spectate, and change views to eliminate any need for console command knowledge. The need for console commands confuses most of my friends that I've gotten playing because they've only ever played packaged games, and if we're trying to draw a larger audience, having transparent functions of the game either in menus or on screen is preferable to needing a console command to use a feature.

                For example, last night I was showing someone some cool combos on 1v1 erase, and i had a hard time walking him through how to get to free spectate camera so he could watch the area I was telling him.

                I linked at the correct time, but if it doesn't go there, watch at 4:02
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMbd...tailpage#t=242

                Warowl walks through the various camera functions available in counter strike, such as rotating between players on a team with 1-0 buttons, space to rotate perspectives (fp, 3rdp, free cam) and clicking to rotate through players, etc.

                That's what the OP boils down to, but I was trying to provide my reasoning for the suggestion, I guess I didn't communicate very well :C Thanks for the response to both my threads. You guys are doing great work, and I love playing in its current state. Hope to see you guys on sometime so I can play you XD
                Last edited by nanthil; 01-05-2015, 01:58 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  behindview 0 set as DEFAULT please!
                  -Al
                  BeyondUnreal.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    [QUOTE=nanthil;130046]E

                    Beef 1: Allow the "JOIN" button to bring you into the server. You are presented with a menu where you can select to either: Join Game or :Spectate. This allows you to join the server no matter what you intend to do on the server. This will also allow people who are spectation to switch to player when they desire to. This happens often in UT99 duel servers. A few people will hang out, chat, watch 2 players duel, maybe even coach a new player. When the winner wants to play the next player, the spectator must rejoin the server as a player.

                    I have not read the rest. I know there are more important problems right now, but this is sth that I would also like to see relatively fast!

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X