The current game movement and weapons balance is very poor for vehicle game types

[Andriushka]

The "classic" balance was about unique guns, about the design of maps created to ensure that each of the weapons was useful. The speed of the "classic" balance is made to be convenient to use this set of weapons.

Increasing the speed of movement will increase the size of the locations,
for larger locations such weapons as ripper or grenades become useless, these weapons are created for tight areas.

I think that this is such a large number of very different things that it is difficult to call it something specific, much depends on the engine, much from the initial design, much may depends on time of game development, much from other idias/factors. In any case, it will be classic in UT99, and hardly somethere else. Many basic features from the first game may have little similarity with it in the new game, becouse developers can make big changes/additionals for this feature if they think that this change will be good.

[MArS03]

Balance is a set of game variables which are polish the final built gamedesign of this game. How can a "classical balance" exist if each game has its own engine and its own gamedesign? Balance is a last thing in development developers polish and improve with patches. About which "classical balance" are people talk?

About balance and accuraty of shooting. Unreal game is about gameworld, but not about "massacre-shooter" like Doom and Quake. Absolutely different games and the origins of the Unreal game I'm sure - the old RPG games and their atmosphere, but not a action-platformers or action-shooters. I think for UT the features + unique weapon system gameplay > than the accuracy of shooting and fast-movement gameplay.

The "classic" balance was about unique guns, about the design of maps created to ensure that each of the weapons was useful. The speed of the "classic" balance is made to be convenient to use this set of weapons.

Increasing the speed of movement will increase the size of the locations,
for larger locations such weapons as ripper or grenades become useless, these weapons are created for tight areas.

[Andriushka]

classical balance

Balance is a set of game variables which are polish the final built gamedesign of this game. How can a "classical balance" exist if each game has its own engine and its own gamedesign? Balance is a last thing in development developers polish and improve with patches. About which "classical balance" are people talk?

About balance and accuraty of shooting. Unreal game is about gameworld, but not about "massacre-shooter" like Doom and Quake. Absolutely different games and the origins of the Unreal game I'm sure - the old RPG games and their atmosphere, but not a action-platformers or action-shooters. I think for UT the features + unique weapon system gameplay > than the accuracy of shooting and fast-movement gameplay.

[MArS03]

Here I do not agree. Now the balance of weapons, movement balanced for the classic (THE ONLY TRUE DEATH MATCH FOREVA) game mode.
The balance of weapons and movement in the UT2004 were balanced for large locations and for confronting vehicles that made classic daethmatches unplayable.
Onslaught mode is hilarious (for 15-year-old) (I understand that this game mode is needed for more people to play).
BUT if you want vehicles in the game you have to think about how to adjust this mode to the conditions of the classical balance, and not vice versa.

Otherwise it is no longer UT but the Battlefield with flak canon.

[Andriushka]

Also I want to add that the MP\Online game in which where such things

can be found or similar is already has some special feature by default. Not sure about net code, but really is it so difficult to have such things in MP game in form of "scripted physical explosion" but acting always in different ways? Just as additional option in game process where such things happen often. It's really epic, if soldier can observe this in extended\improved UT3+++ or even in UT IV game. Not everythere, only for special gamemode, maybe 24x24. Have this in addition to the overall improvement of the game. I mean after UT3 such things are very expected, although not necessary. But as an addition, why not? Without super-duper discussion about this element, just put something like what in game and build another things around this for one special gamemode (from devs side, not from modmakers side ofcourse). Nobody finish what feature\gamemod? Ok, but this thing at least it was tested.

For me, until now, absolute nonsense to observe the current development after UT3 game. It would seem that now (after UT3) there can be anything, more interesting elements and more complex elements in the bigger game maded with new UE4, but no, absolutely not so. And also not good if bosses say OK, and set the task to make a glossy online "ski-fi with all modern standards" game attached to the marcetplace store, I think this will not refers to UT gameworld as current development also. For me the improved version of UE3+++ with old source code - is a best platform to start develop UT IV. Just a one exception to the rules (all games on UE4), just becouse source code, big game and greate efforts of Epic games developers and ofcourse tested through and through the platform and the working game along with it and a certain fundamental balance that can already be understood and used when expanding the game on new rails.

[Andriushka]

I wanted to write \ add something like this on forum. The main point is that the player with low-medium skill can easily destroy any vehicles, but even if developers add vehicles in this game build, vehicles likely will be of the same type vehicle (4 wheels, purely for a tick to add such vehicles in game), almost without special design or individual movement\playing structure inside overall game process. UT3 Duel gamemode not good (12-0, 14-10, 18-20 or 20 - 2 something like this) becouse it just did not finished properly by devs, but not becouse vehicles gamemodes. It still Duel gamemode and it is just different, feels like wrong or maybe broken, but it also works fine like everything in the game - and it complements, saturates the game, this is not a theatrical presentation of some symbolic meanings - "Arena FPS", "True skill", "True competition", "True UT", "True speed", "True reactions", "Ideal as UT99" it is just a one small part of the one big epic game without bounders and with some freedom as online games have. I think UT3 developers could finalize Duel gamemode if this gamemode was very needed by someone, not by, dont know, 60 hard players, but as least by 10% of players. They could add something additional into duel gamemode (increasing speed or giving new opportunities), it is not a problem for Epic games team of 2006 year. The very good feature of UT3 game is a uniqueness coming from the very first game, with constant additions. "Space fight", "Double miniguns juggernaut" from UT2004, maps from UT99 are just much more smaller things which could be added in the UT IV in a new or different form if needed. But this elements are so small, if compare they with the base part of the UT3, and the absence of this elements in the game changes almost nothing. Yes music in UT99 most interesting and UT99 has most epic tracks but this has nothing to do with "Arena FPS", right?

Hopefully this break will allow some re-thinking about the directions the game is moving

Who and for that the somebody will re-thinking something about this developments? If it works and some old UT devs OK about this UT, and marketplace appeared even earlier than the hint of the birth of any elements of the game began to appear. UE4 engine is used, synthetic development of game is used, hats also there, what else do you need? True speed, true reaction on board, just wait some years of development process and the weapon balance will be 100% true. Old true players will remember about UT99, install current UT and say "O yeee, lets rock again", devs will got hats store, bosses got minimal\zero risks, new players from outside will got modern-super-duper shiny 3D scene and ready starting key to "stuffing skill in e-sports", everything is fire. Niche game will got its niche and "fit into the plan" status. It's a pity that the Epic games team broke up, if they made Lawbreakers, they are able to start developing UT IV. It's hard to understand why they left Epic games, maybe this company was becoming more and more bigger and more complex corporation, and new effective managers from somewhere just optimized Epic games work process. If something like that has happened the first optimized candidature might be game designers - absolutely useless dudes, who do nothing except unnecessary excel docs, the second candidature, if assume, the texture makers, photoshop and bunch of 2D progs are no longer suitable for "Dev" status, 3D artists do it well. Sounds, music - all this things make people from internet, animators are also not needed, 3D artist do it well again. Scripters - 50\50, coder do it also. Mapmaking - happy fans from internet able to do this thing.

But if talk seriously, I hope and think this is not so. It would be good if Lawbreakers team returned to the Epic games. Yes, this happens even rarer than the breakup of teams, but why not? I respect the founders of Epic games and creators of the UE engines, they have a hugest amount of work, their work is incredible. But really, the one corporation making games is much better then the one corporation making projects, even if their work was not evaluated because of the huge number of games on the market. And in order to have a big sale they do not need to make a good game anymore, they need do a mass opinion that this game is good and not selling games, but selling a mass opinion. This is a big difference and something like this blows the roof off the old developers, I'm sure. But this is not a reason not to develop games, and especially UT IV game. I did not find in Star Citizen videos something that at least was OK if compare with UT3. What other games are so comptex and made of the core of the gameplay as UT3 and UT serie in general, I do not know. I mean - not staged, big, with freedom, unique in any aspects, the golden mean in a variety of indicators and features. Again, if compare (if this need for someone) UT with another games - compare at least with SC, but not with Quake. Compare UT with Quake is like compare UT with cow on a meadow or with sandwich on a plate the effect is the same. When developers begin to compare UT with Quake and a half of forum do it, the developers by default start make Quake clone instead UT game. These two games have zero total, except the release date of UT99. I also wrote about comparing UT with Quake becouse for this forum this is some binding things and an "indicator of quality" that does not hold up to any criticism.

Continuation of UT3 game with high-end 3D and working on new rails and finished game modes is a something very special what can be appear from online games side. As I understand UT IV with possible high-end graphics and online direction of the game is a key for bosses that they gave the go-ahead for the development of such a game. The important thing is to convince that it is not niche game. And a marketplace in this game is always possible in many forms, if this game has MP-online like structure ready for mass players amount and for hard players also. Make a "all-in-one service with one big-game for all UT fans and for all "ski-fi" players". But not for "50 true sniper-elite players from all internet". I have to write this frequently on this forum.

[Bobba_Novis]

Now that the game is on hold, perhaps this break gives the developers a chance to re-evaluate the direction of the game.

The current game player movement is very poor for use with vehicles. The player will be at total mercy of the carz unless they can move, dodgle, jump, etc. Making a game you can play with the arrow keys is the wrong way to go with this.

The current state of the gunz, especially flak and rockets, is also very very bad. The guns have been nerfed too much and has made it frustrating to play. There is a balance here that has been lost.

UT4 currently has very poor weapons balance mixed with small movement. Turning the game into a slow walker type, just to make it more noob freindly, eliminates too much UT from the game.

Hopefully this break will allow some re-thinking about the directions the game is moving.