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    #31
    Originally posted by Orion` View Post
    roflno

    UT3's Shock Rifle was the most well-rounded and balanced, tbh.
    This, but for UT4 it probably wouldn't work with primary fire being 45 and 2ndary core dmg 55 (but the core also moved rather slow, at least a noticeable amount slower than in UT4)... 1 core + 1 primary would be too powerful. Then again UT4's combo is a lot stronger (larger in radius) and UT3 rather puny not turning it all into "Combo rifle" only which I liked. I'd like to see a happy medium between current UT4's and UT3 setting that the Combo is weakened slightly bit in radius (or the 2ndary fire slight bit buffed) in favor for bringing out a little bit more primary and 2ndary fire kills statistically. I don't enjoy it when one firemode dominates so much more for a weapon that we're talking like 4-5x kill stat lead for combo kills vs primary & 2ndary. Sure, combo should be the signature use but it shouldn't be "Combo rifle" only though and comparably have its other firemodes fare very bad statistically versus both combo kills and other weapon stat kills. If we would compare firemodes of other weapons, most people would consider the balancing be heavily off if one firemode has 4-5x more kills than the other firemode. I think a good balance would be if it was 3x-4x or so difference which still is significant.

    In UT3 the only weapon I felt was slightly OP was Rocket Launcher which the stats showed too.

    EDIT: It could have been UT3's rather unforgiving hitboxes and netcode that still made 45 dmg primary and 55 dmg 2ndary work pretty well too besides differences in movement and weapon parameters.

    Right now I have 1643 combo kills but only 383 primary (4.3x less) and 313 2ndary core kills (5.2x less). For me this is too huge difference and it's not like I've tried to deliberately use combos only... I see similar huge differences for other players too between combo kills and primary/2ndary. Then again Combos, Rockets and Flak primary dominates the field still quite noticeably if looking purely at stats, of course they are the weapons of choice against 100hp+ guys so they should have significantly more kills but I still think they are somewhat too much dominating still despite slight nerfs here and there although rockets are starting to feel quite balanced now, more so than flak primary and shock combo. Rockets is like quite fine, the instant 100 hit is the only questionmark and things like UT99's acceleration on rockets would nerf close range efficiency slightly bit while keeping medium & long distance effiency untouched but then again a lot of players seems to dislike that. Flak primary has slightly too much dmg + easy to hit combined. Shock combo slightly hard to evade due large radius (or lacking movement evasive options such as too slow dodge).

    A very slightly faster dodge might work favorably instead of further nerfing weapons at this point possibly.
    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 11-25-2015, 06:07 PM.

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      #32
      Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
      Right now I have 1643 combo kills but only 383 primary (4.3x less) and 313 2ndary core kills (5.2x less). For me this is too huge difference and it's not like I've tried to deliberately use combos only... I see similar huge differences for other players too between combo kills and primary/2ndary. Then again Combos, Rockets and Flak primary dominates the field still quite noticeably if looking purely at stats, of course they are the weapons of choice against 100hp+ guys so they should have significantly more kills but I still think they are somewhat too much dominating still despite slight nerfs here and there although rockets are starting to feel quite balanced now, more so than flak primary and shock combo. Rockets is like quite fine, the instant 100 hit is the only questionmark and things like UT99's acceleration on rockets would nerf close range efficiency slightly bit while keeping medium & long distance effiency untouched but then again a lot of players seems to dislike that. Flak primary has slightly too much dmg + easy to hit combined. Shock combo slightly hard to evade due large radius (or lacking movement evasive options such as too slow dodge).

      A very slightly faster dodge might work favorably instead of further nerfing weapons at this point possibly.

      Based on what Steve has said this is kind of the intent with the Shock Rifle. Personally, not a fan of this approach, as I think the Shock Rifle should be more than just a combo machine. It's certainly one way to 'balance' it though.
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        #33
        Shock combo is weaker than in ut3 in every aspect, I am pretty sure about it :P

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          #34
          Originally posted by rAge. View Post
          Shock combo is weaker than in ut3 in every aspect, I am pretty sure about it :P
          I disagree about Combo, in UT3 it is easier to avoid/dodge because:

          1. Dodge is snapper in UT3 (initially very fast that slows down a bit towards the end of the dodge), diagonally towards the side backwards dodging in UT3 often let you escape the combo in situations that in UT4 you can't
          2. The combo radius is significantly smaller in UT3, don't know the exact setting but visually it's a big difference at least, especially with low settings like I used to use for better visual clarity
          3. Shock core velocity is noticeably slower in UT3

          In UT3 I felt combos were neither overpowered or too weak, it seemed to deal a lot of damage when it hits though which I think it should but I don't want the radius to be overly huge, ala UT99 or UT4 style.
          Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 11-26-2015, 04:56 AM.

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            #35
            Combo radius is almost the same, I tested it around two months ago. It could be strange, but in ut3 is even a litlle bit bigger. I feel in ut4 combo is a bit underpowered in comparison to other weapons (which is not bad, because other weapons are overpowered). It's super easy to counter it. In duel it is one of the best weapons I agree, but in tdm its value drops dramatically. In 4v4 is almost useless, because of close distances between players and lack of ammo.
            Last edited by rAge.; 11-26-2015, 07:23 AM.

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              #36
              I generally haven't used shock rifle much in UT4 until recently, instead prefering sniper for its quick instakill potential. Additionally, I tend to enjoy closer range battles. However, I've made mental notes of its strengths and weaknesses, and been using it a lot more since last update, whereas I had nearly 0 kills beforehand(that is how little I was using it). In other Unreal games it was used more often.

              It appears both simultaneously OP and Underpowered based on how I've seen others use it, and as I've been trying to exploit its combo more recently. The biggest issue is really that its combo radius is simply too gigantic. CTF-Face is my new favorite for shock combo since embracing the weapon. On defense you can practically stand at base and just fire balls to explode combos and collect ammo resets, and will virtually kill any player approaching the tower who is even attempting to avoid it by upward rapid translocating. Should the opponent decide to sniper, the angle of the downward slope and map cliffs mean you can just fire its primary once, and the knockback will generally send them off the side/middle. The only way to avoid is to remain in the centers of the slope, allowing you to shock primary them easier knowing they can't easily dodge anywhere else without risking knockback-drop instakill. Meanwhile you have the entire base to dodge, health pickups to heal, and corners to hide behind. A random Shockball can also be fired to limit the time opponents can remain aggressive. If they press to kill before the combo moment they risk combo-death.

              CTF - Clash also has an issue for flag runners. There are lots of tunnels, but all are the perfect diameter of a full shock combo. A Shock User can simply translocate to numerous different positions and shock combo, and there isn't an easy solution for escape. If there are two adequate simultaneous shock combo players, a flag runner cannot escape without aid period. Forced elimination.

              The reason I bring up CTF, is they tend to have larger maps, and the combo radius is already larger than many of the paths. TDM, and Deathmatch maps have much smaller rooms and tunnels exposing the flaw. The core also seems fast enough to catch sprinting players. Some large levels have periods with very long tunnels. Shooting cores along those tunnels at the right moment guarantees death upon any approaching player, even if they notice and retreat. No other weapon has this issue. For these reasons I believe the total shock Diameter should be reduced by 40% of its current size.

              When the Combo does go off, the damage itself can be inconsistent if the opposing player has more than respawn health/armor. I think in order to balance this, the shock combo itself should have its damage raised enough that it virtually guarantees death when successfully landed in all but the most egregious circumstances.

              On the other side of things, The Shock Core Radius(not combo radius) itself is too small and needs Larger Knockback to use it defensively when opponents get close. The Primary may also need speed damage revisions to make it more useful while still seperating itself from snipers slow high-damage firing profile. I would actually recommend lowering the primary fire damage to 30, but raising its firing rate to compensate. This seperates the shock rifle from the sniper, and due to its knockback effect would allow a player more impacts to displace an opponent backward. With the addition of the larger obscuring shock cores intermixed, a player could now fallback defensively in a more fluid fashion with the weapon. If an aggressor is stumbles or pushes incorrectly a combo would be scored in the process. To prevent visual errors, collision of the combo trigger should match the outer radius of the increased shock core. This would also stop the current use of shock which appears to be mostly STOMBOS, and instead encourage players to move around greatly, and then fire at the core(These style of combos happen to look much cooler anyways.)

              To summarize:

              - Increase Shock Core size by 40-50%
              and match combo collision to core shape. Helps with short range defense. Also helps to improve combo trigger while moving/dodging, and pulls players away from using stombo for successful use.
              - Increase Shock Core Knockback distance.
              - Decrease Shock Core speed by a small margin. (5%-7.5%)
              - Decrease Primary Damage to 30, but Raise Fire rate to compensate and seperate itself from sniper while allowing for more defensive knockback triggers.
              - Decrease Shock Combo Radius by 40% so that players can't simply STOMBO or shoot down restricted halls/paths at the right moment to guarantee hit, but actually need to think about how to force a successful combo.
              - Increase Shock Combo Damage if landing a successful hit. Survival only in extremely rare instances.
              - Increase speed of Primary Fire potential trigger after Shock Core release to allow for marginally faster comboing at closer ranges. (5%-7.5% faster.)

              Additional note:
              - Increase Base Ammo count to 24-30(this assumes certain changes listed above, combined with the fact the weapon seems to run out too soon already).

              One more Note:
              - Increase strength of the environment light emitter to help judge its distance over large fields(such as certain maps of ctf)where cores are used less often and can be difficult to determine the exact position.
              Last edited by LordPookums; 11-27-2015, 12:49 AM.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by LordPookums View Post
                - Decrease Primary Damage to 30, but Raise Fire rate to compensate and seperate itself from sniper while allowing for more defensive knockback triggers.
                - Decrease Shock Combo Radius by 40% so that players can't simply STOMBO or shoot down restricted halls/paths at the right moment to guarantee hit, but actually need to think about how to force a successful combo.
                - Increase Shock Combo Damage if landing a successful hit. Survival only in extremely rare instances.
                These ideas are awful. Let me explain why:

                -Decreasing the damage to 30 and increasing the ROF would make the Shock Rifle a spam weapon. This would cause players to resort to rapidly firing but not emphasizing accuracy. Not to mention that 30 damage for the Shock Rifle is absurd and should never be considered. If anything, the primary should be buffed to 45 and the secondary to 55. This would make the secondary actually useful and not solely used for combos. Also, if someone with 100 hp gets hit by a core+primary, they deserve to die, because they would've been right next to the combo anyway.

                -Nerfing the combo radius and buffing the damage is also a bad idea. I get that you want to make stombos less useful, but this wouldn't work. Reason being because this would cause people to keep spamming cores until one lands right next to someone, allowing them to hit the core and dealing an incredible amount of damage. This would cause the game to be clustered with more spam. If someone is fighting someone with the Shock Rifle in a narrow corridor, that is their mistake. Plus, we already have the Link primary which cancels out shock cores, and would be a much more powerful weapon in narrow corridors if anything.

                I tend to agree with most of your other points, though. Ammo needs to be increased, cores need to be slightly bigger & move at a slightly lower speed, and the time between firing primary+secondary should be decreased.
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                  #38
                  I kind of agree with the people that are saying the core is a bit weak right now, but honestly I would not like it to be much more powerful because it would make it like the UT99 Shock.. and half the reason that thing was OP was because you could be in close range, and someone would jump in on you with Flak/Rockets, and you could just spam shock cores while walking backwards without aiming at all, and still deal 80 damage per hit. They were pretty hard to avoid due to how big the collision radius on them was, and honestly didn't require any aim to hit with since you could fire them really fast. And if you got hit by just one, a good player could combo the next core and totally annihilate your stack.

                  I was thinking of a way to make the cores more useful without making them effective to spam, and here's what I came up with:

                  First, reduce the core collision for players to a tiny point in the middle, basically the same as the core collision for geometry. With it like this, you would have to hit the player directly with the middle of the core to do damage. Direct hit core damage stays the same by the way.

                  Second, make the core splash damage (when you hit the ground/walls with the core) a fair amount larger, and more damaging. Possibly increase knockback a little bit (will need to be heavily tested).

                  Third, make the core 2-3% slower or so, I still find it's a bit too quick in this build. This is mostly to balance combos but also would help in avoiding cores fired directly at someone rather than at the ground.

                  I think this would promote much less spammy use of Shock cores (as you would have to aim at the ground like with rockets to be effective with them, and that IMO requires more skill than holding down RMB and walking backwards) and reduce the amount of those annoying "combo duds" where you aim your core right to the side of someone to inflict maximum combo damage but instead, it actually hits the player (happens a lot in this build since the core collision was increased).

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Orion` View Post
                    These ideas are awful. Let me explain why:

                    -Decreasing the damage to 30 and increasing the ROF would make the Shock Rifle a spam weapon. This would cause players to resort to rapidly firing but not emphasizing accuracy. Not to mention that 30 damage for the Shock Rifle is absurd and should never be considered. If anything, the primary should be buffed to 45 and the secondary to 55. This would make the secondary actually useful and not solely used for combos. Also, if someone with 100 hp gets hit by a core+primary, they deserve to die, because they would've been right next to the combo anyway.

                    -Nerfing the combo radius and buffing the damage is also a bad idea. I get that you want to make stombos less useful, but this wouldn't work. Reason being because this would cause people to keep spamming cores until one lands right next to someone, allowing them to hit the core and dealing an incredible amount of damage. This would cause the game to be clustered with more spam. If someone is fighting someone with the Shock Rifle in a narrow corridor, that is their mistake. Plus, we already have the Link primary which cancels out shock cores, and would be a much more powerful weapon in narrow corridors if anything.

                    I tend to agree with most of your other points, though. Ammo needs to be increased, cores need to be slightly bigger & move at a slightly lower speed, and the time between firing primary+secondary should be decreased.
                    I'll follow same order format to maintain clarity:

                    Point 1. No it wouldn't. Especially with the subtle rate of fire increase that would make the Damage to shot ratio roughly equivalent. That is unless you think instagib is a battle of spam. I believe you would find a lot of disagreement with that statement. What determines balance of a weapon is its Time to kill compared to its Utility, not the amount of shots fired. By any other definition, all automatic, flamethrower, splash or burst weapons are considered spam weapons. You can still avoid auto-weapons even the Tracing primary stinger if you pay attention. With this change proposed, the shock rifle will have a higher overall damage CONSISTENCY because several more shots will be fired in combat totality accounting for both misses and hits, but it will have a lower LUCK factor, where 3 shots that managed to hit in sequence kills extremely quickly. 30 damage forces a 4 shot requirement, which is harder to achieve in a row. If the current rate of the weapon is 3 shots in a period of time(40x3 =120 damage) and this is altered to 4 shots in the same period(30x4=120 damage), you have a better chance to deal damage and push them back farther(defense), but a worse chance to kill in a miraculous way because you now need to make more shots land accurately to kill a non buffed opponent.

                    In addition, a random shot across the map you didn't expect before you enter a building will take off 10 less damage if it hits, a resolution to a problem that exists with all hitscan weaponry. This will allow you to face any opponent inside with 70 instead of 60hp, even though the player who primary shocked you is not near, and has no intention of entering to fight you. This issue is mostly found on maps like volcano or Chill, where a random player can make a closer battle more difficult for no other reason then they were originally hoping you were weak and would obtain a kill, but were wrong. With the higher damage consistency from more shots, using primary without combo seperates itself from the sniper, allows for more knockback defense from the primary(something that reflects on its SHOCKING status) and makes it mildly more viable.. MILDLY. The shock rifle in its current state is mostly...shoot a core, make a combo. Rarely -> fire & pray for a kill on a hopefully weak opponent. DO NOTHING ELSE!

                    - The primary should not be 45 damage, as that makes it closer to sniper. The weapon needs to seperate itself from the sniper or one of the two weapons needs to be removed from the chosen default weapons of the game. If the sniper is replaced as a main default sequence into mutator territory, I have no issue with 45 damage shot.
                    - I have not checked the core damage since the combo radius is so gigantic, and core so tiny its pointless to not attempt a combo when an opponent is nearby one. However if the core does less damage then 50, it needs to be raised to 50 or 55 anyways.
                    - 1 Primary + 1 core should not be a kill. Thats too abuseable. IIRC UT3 had those values, which is probably why i used it a ton in that game, compared to only recently in UT4. UT3 shock rifle was too strong in close range, even if it was much more balanced to its strengths for other ranges. A quick core + primary creates an ABSURD close range TTK. The shock is not meant to be a close combat weapon. It is a mid to long range weapon. It should have knockback and core size to enable defensive backtracking at close range and to attempt a forced combo risk. IMO The damage should follow 4 shots primary, 1 core + 2 shots primary, 2 cores, or 1 combo for a basic kill. This also creates a perfect 4-3-2-1 scale that matches perfectly with each weapon styles utility. Hitscan is easiest, projectiles are harder to hit, and combos(when they don't have the current gigantic explosion radius) are hardest, so this scale works perfectly.

                    ---------------------------

                    Point 2: Players can already fire a group of cores at the moment. Most don't because the combo radius is so gigantic they have absolutely no need for it! In addition, cores take a lot of shock ammo. Even if we revised the shock ammo to values I proposed, rapid firing cores is a quick rush to no ammo. Raising combo damage and lowering combo radius has NOTHING to do with shock core spam or non spam. Those are solely combo related points. If cores were already useful enough to spam, no one would combo anyways. Even with an increased core size & collision by 40-50% I proposed used, core spam would not really be a thing. The current shock cores are tiny. At Bio and flak range players usually seem to miss their targets with cores. They certainly aren't that hard to dodge from my perspective. Its that **** combo that is hard to dodge depending on your location(only large open areas are the exception where a combo is absolutely useless against a player paying attention). They move faster than players and are unavoidable in tunnels. NO WEAPON, especially not a SPIKE damage weapon should be unavoidable, regardless of if your in a tunnel or not. Especially not in an arena game where dodging is suppose to matter. If the explosion is altered covering 85-90% of a tunnel size, That is fine. Then you have to correctly dodge to the best tunnel orientation or die. But it should never cover 100% of the diameter.

                    I mentioned CTF-Face and CTF-Clash. I happened upon Face shock secret myself when I started using the weapon since last patch. Clash shock issue I learned from a player using the alias JustIgnore. The Combo Radius is literally as big as the wider paths on those levels. On face the explosion literally covers the width of the paths from the middle X down into a base. Add in the fact that a single shock primary will knock someone over the edge if they use full dodge distance to sniper, and you can literally just STOMBO an entire opposing team OVER AND OVER again, even if they try to xloc perpindicular to the ground or xloc off the cliff and back on. If two players don't simultaneously climb down the two seperate paths , then no one usually makes it to your tower base. If you have a second player handling enemies on the other side, it can take 2 lives of the entire enemy team just for one to make it into your base, where they will usually get rocketed to death shortly.

                    On CTF-Clash, the exits and even the middle valley near the flags can be covered by a perfectly center oriented shock combo. If a player escape off the flag bridge into the water they are usually dead anyways. If they jump in the sniper room, the shock combo has the width to cover the distance. DEAD. If they jump into the flak room, the shock combo covers the width of the room and is faster. DEAD. If the mountain wall to bridge path is Taken -> obviously smaller than a shock combo. Take the center valley with stinger(which can be risky anyways), the shock combo covers THAT ENTIRE WIDTH!!!...If by somehow someone manages to make it out of the base a shock combo covers the bridge width and all other midmap path widths. The only location where a flagrunner might have space to avoid a well timed combo is at the very base of the level near the shieldbelt. I think there is a one player width to skim the rim of the shock combo. That is it. This is also taking into account that these CTF maps have larger path/tunnel widths then the Deathmatch maps anyways. Which demonstrates the obvious vulgarity of shock combo diameter.

                    ------------------------------

                    Currently the weapon is OP and Underpowered.

                    This isn't noticed because of flak, rockets, stinger ALT superior to shock primary in damage & fire rate alongside its primary love of Udamage, and Link Alt fire being too damaging for an ability that can keep you in its range. Shock Combo is just as strong or stronger than some of those in its current form, but its not noticed because its not a primary, alt, or even a third fire mode, but a Variant combination weapon.

                    Shock rifle OPness = current shock combo, shock rifle immediate 3-hit miracle(rarely happens, usually can be avoided, but if the ping gods favor a player a quick 3 hit can occur as a result of server rewind.)
                    Shock rifle UnderPness = Primary inconsistent and unreliable due to lack of damage or lack of fire rate for damage averaging. Core not used for comboing is worthless. Too little ammo on the weapon itself. Worthless against an armored opponent who is close enough that combo won't work, and knockback deflection/core size isn't enough to push them away from you.

                    You'll notice I favored the second option to fix the first UnderPness. This is because the SNIPER currently uses the first version and weapons SHOULD NOT FEEL the same. Nor should the shock be able to reliably outdamage the sniper at its strengths.

                    If the combo's giant radius Must remain, and players want increased damage primary and core damage, the weapon combo needs to be largely modified. In that instance, there are two scenarios. One, rather than creating a combo by blasting the core with an absurd radius, a core could cause a player to become COMBO marked. If a primary hits the player following a marking, they take primary damage + additional combo damage, and it hits nearby DM players or TDM allies for some splash damage(but less than the marked player). This would at least prevent players from using the weapon purely for its STOMBO abuse. It does modify the shock rifle to a new form which some players might not enjoy. However, maybe they would enjoy it more. The alternative is to make a combo do much less damage, essentially allowing a player to use a combo to deal splash damage when core/primary shots aren't working or are expected to miss, but a player is within range of potential splash. This would make the weapon extremely viable and consistent at damage, but combo's wouldn't feel as enjoyable. More utilitarian.

                    This is why I leaned toward a third assumption that players want to maintain the feel that a combo is something spectacular and reactive. To balance the Combo in that instance requires a significantly smaller combo radius, with increased damage to virtually guarantee death except in egregious circumstances.

                    ----------------------------

                    TLR, etc.

                    I typed my responses and my original reasoning at the last paragraphs to give you a sense why the shock rifle needs to be changed, and why it simply cannot be given a pure wholesale buff. It needs BUFFS and NERFS to balance properly. Anything else will result in a worthless weapon or a weapon that dominates all others.
                    Last edited by LordPookums; 11-28-2015, 01:48 AM.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                      I kind of agree with the people that are saying the core is a bit weak right now, but honestly I would not like it to be much more powerful because it would make it like the UT99 Shock.. and half the reason that thing was OP was because you could be in close range, and someone would jump in on you with Flak/Rockets, and you could just spam shock cores while walking backwards without aiming at all, and still deal 80 damage per hit.
                      Nobody is suggesting to make the cores deal 80 damage (at least I'm not). Like I previously said, having it at 55 with the beam at 45 would be a great balance.

                      Agreed on the rest of your points, though.
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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Orion` View Post
                        Nobody is suggesting to make the cores deal 80 damage (at least I'm not). Like I previously said, having it at 55 with the beam at 45 would be a great balance.

                        Agreed on the rest of your points, though.
                        Yeah, but in a lot of cases 55 is the same. You still die in 2 hits when you are a fresh spawn, and that's what is important. And personally, I also don't like the idea of one beam and one core killing someone as it basically means you are rewarded for messing up your combo (hitting with the core and then the primary, rather than placing the core to the side of the enemy and blowing it up into a combo). A whole lot of Shock kills in UT99 were these failed combos.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                          Yeah, but in a lot of cases 55 is the same. You still die in 2 hits when you are a fresh spawn, and that's what is important. And personally, I also don't like the idea of one beam and one core killing someone as it basically means you are rewarded for messing up your combo (hitting with the core and then the primary, rather than placing the core to the side of the enemy and blowing it up into a combo). A whole lot of Shock kills in UT99 were these failed combos.
                          If the core speed is slightly reduced, it should be less of a problem. Shock cores are incredibly weak at this point, and need a serious buff. I can't think of a single time when anyone would want to use that over anything else. The damage it deals currently is too low and needs to be increased, to actually make it somewhat useful as a standalone secondary fire.

                          Also, messing up the combo isn't always what happens. A lot of the time an enemy will dodge into your core, in which case you can do nothing to prevent that from happening. Considering how the dodge distance is somewhat equal to the radius of the combo, you basically couldn't have placed a better core, because then you'd be dealing far less to almost no damage if your combo is way off to the side. People who run into cores should be punished, not rewarded. If this was the case, people might as well consider running into cores on purpose a pro tactic, as you'll then take 100+ less damage than if you're combo'd. This should not be the case.
                          Last edited by dangerousShark09; 11-28-2015, 03:07 PM.
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                            #43
                            Definitelly shock needs some kind of buff, most important seems to be increasing ammo and improving shock in close/mid (combo is between mid and long)

                            Originally posted by Orion` View Post
                            Also, messing up the combo isn't always what happens. A lot of the time an enemy will dodge into your core, in which case you can do nothing to prevent that from happening. Considering how the dodge distance is somewhat equal to the radius of the combo, you basically couldn't have placed a better core, because then you'd be dealing far less to almost no damage if your combo is way off to the side. People who run into cores should be punished, not rewarded. If this was the case, people might as well consider running into cores on purpose a pro tactic, as you'll then take 100+ less damage than if you're combo'd. This should not be the case.
                            THIS! It's old tactic to jump into enemy core to avoid combo damage.

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                              #44
                              UT4's Shock Rifle is probably my favorite out of all the games so far and it is my favorite weapon overall. I have no problems getting kills with any of its firing modes. All the complaints about it that I've seen are basically: "It's too hard to get kills with it now." You guys are just used to the OP Shocks from previous games and need to adapt to this new one! :P

                              Neither the primary nor secondary should EVER deal more than 49 damage. 40 on the primary and 45 on the secondary is perfect. I'm over the two-hit kills from previous games and this new balance is a welcomed improvement. Players are extremely easy to hit in this game due to the ping comp and large player hitboxes so why are people asking for more powerful shots? The fact of the matter is, the primary and secondary firing modes need to be balanced WITH the tertiary firing mode (shock combos) very much in mind! You don't need two-hit kills when you can deal almost 200 damage whenever you want.

                              The only things I'd change about the current Shock Rifle would be to increase the shock ball velocity slightly (so that it can be more effective in close-range without having to deal 50+ damage per hit), and decrease the time-to-combo to compensate for this - which would leave it the same as it is now, more or less. The current time-to-combo is good, IMO. ROF on primary and secondary, as well as the knockback on the primary are good now as well. Combo radius could be made slightly bigger, but its minimum damage would have to be decreased accordingly. Ammo is good as well, but starting ammo should be increased to 17 to allow up to four combos instead of the current three. (Spoken like a true combo *****. )

                              Stop asking for easy-kill weapons. Isn't that what the main complaints are about [insert every other weapon here]? This game NEEDS balanced weapons that take skill to use. No single weapon should ever be good in any given situation and the Shock Rifle has always been a top offender in this regard.
                              Last edited by «MechikTåj»; 12-03-2015, 10:24 PM.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by rAge. View Post
                                (combo is between mid and long)
                                Bull****. Combo is not between mid and long.

                                Shock is well balanced now, please stop crying to have it made OP again. More ammo sure that's reasonable but shock is still the most versatile weapon in the game, it doesn't need to be a spam cannon that owns everything else at any range too.
                                Last edited by MoxNix; 12-04-2015, 01:43 AM.

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