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    Redeemer - Ideas

    I think we should be making separate topics per weapon so that we can easily sum up ideas and keep the forum clean and easy to search through.

    Redeemer:
    UT3 like, with a third firing mode, Javelin style (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...r/Javelin.html).
    Blast radius should be bigger (it's a portable nuke FFS) and it should be carried on your shoulder, like a bazooka. Missile should fly a bit faster.

    Fire modes:
    First - What we are used to
    Second - What we are used to
    Third (Hold "mouse 1", target with "mouse 2" an release) - Missile shoots out of the barrel with a delayed ignition, rocketing the missile up and moments later drops down from above with a nice trajectory. Something like below:

    Click image for larger version

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    Extra twist: while in mid air, click "mouse 2", making the missile burst and... Just check out the Jericho missile from the first Ironman movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXk-2C2q9wA

    I think this third mode could be a fun, but also tactical addition in combat because of it's delayed/surprise attack nature (kinda like the SPMA mortar). Combined with the extra firepower/Jericho spread, the missile will have a greater impact area. Also, if used correctly, harder to spot/hit.
    Third firing mode for big open maps (Warfare) only, though.

    Post your comment/idea below!

    #2
    UT99 Redeemer.

    Multiple projectiles is a bad idea because the point of the redeemer is it was a devastating projectile that could be countered by being shot down. The guided functionality was a high risk / reward because it left the operator vulnerable.

    Comment


      #3
      ut99/ut3 one, I think they were pretty much the same in terms of functionality?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Brankster View Post
        I think we should be making separate topics per weapon so that we can easily sum up ideas and keep the forum clean and easy to search through.

        Redeemer:
        UT3 like, with a third firing mode, Javelin style (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...r/Javelin.html).
        Blast radius should be bigger (it's a portable nuke FFS) and it should be carried on your shoulder, like a bazooka. Missile should fly a bit faster.

        Fire modes:
        First - What we are used to
        Second - What we are used to
        Third (Hold "mouse 1", target with "mouse 2" an release) - Missile shoots out of the barrel with a delayed ignition, rocketing the missile up and moments later drops down from above with a nice trajectory. Something like below:

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]2478[/ATTACH]

        Extra twist: while in mid air, click "mouse 2", making the missile burst and... Just check out the Jericho missile from the first Ironman movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXk-2C2q9wA

        I think this third mode could be a fun, but also tactical addition in combat because of it's delayed/surprise attack nature (kinda like the SPMA mortar). Combined with the extra firepower/Jericho spread, the missile will have a greater impact area. Also, if used correctly, harder to spot/hit.
        Third firing mode for big open maps (Warfare) only, though.

        Post your comment/idea below!
        I wouldn't mind testing this thing out. I think what we should is just lay out many different designs and functions, where we can test them and choose the best one. Now would this work better in a specific mod or any mods?
        History: UT99 (2003 - 2007; 2009 - Now) UT2k4: (2005-2007), UT3 (2008-2009)
        UT Nicknames: Shotman, HeatWave, MY_KID
        UT Clan: -={SDA}=- (Sniping Death Angles) and zsu (Zark Snipers United)
        UT Main Menu Design

        Comment


          #5
          I think all of us have shot a deemer at our feet at this point. It'd be interesting if there were an option where you could self-detonate not out of panic, but strategically, where you take a bite out of the warhead or something, and it increases the blast radius by 15%. Just a silly idea that might not be viable, but it'd be another fun place to add personality to the game.
          I went by B0T0X in UT2k4, BoboTheBrave in UT3. If you remember me, send me a PM!

          Remember? I was the one running backward with the flag!

          Comment


            #6
            Jericho missile for the larger maps...great idea.
            Any redeemer designers here?

            Comment


              #7
              I think it's a great idea, especially for the larger maps. But it could also work for the small maps.
              The power and damage of each rocket should be decreased by the number of rockets it will turn into.

              Maybe use a fire selection on the reedemer, like if you press 1 (or nothing) you have the basic redeemer mode, like the old UT versions.
              Select or press 2 you will a jericho kind of missle, while using the jericho missle you need to laser designate the target.

              I'm making some concepts for guns, I will try and put this idea in the Redeemer concept!

              Comment


                #8
                What if it was like ut99/ut3 but a bit slower and easier to fly down corridoors? It would be pretty funny seeing one navigating down hallways.
                UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mangley View Post
                  UT99 Redeemer.

                  Multiple projectiles is a bad idea because the point of the redeemer is it was a devastating projectile that could be countered by being shot down. The guided functionality was a high risk / reward because it left the operator vulnerable.
                  I agree, giving it more speed or easier firing options is a bad idea in that it will make people camp for redeemers all day. It will also make getting kills with the redeemer way too easy.
                  PayBack

                  Comment


                    #10
                    In terms of functionality, I think it should keep the same base as the previous ones, with normal fire being a fire-and-forget warhead, and alt fire a guided one, both able to get shot down, so other than visually, the rest should remain the same.

                    However, I was always underwhelmed about the Redeemer power in itself. For a "devastating" weapon, it surely never felt like one, ever, other than having just a big shockwave coming seemingly from nowhere, doing almost nothing other than giving a ton of damage from the painfully slow shockwave, without a proper bright explosion to it, nor good debris, not any feeling of "sh*t is going down!" to it.
                    I think that this time it should be really a weapon that once you hold you get the feeling of what you're actually holding and what's going to come out from it, and once it explodes it does so in all glory truly devastating all around it (of course, without going too far either).

                    Weapons of mass destruction | Community UT mods

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Andyk125 View Post
                      I think it's a great idea, especially for the larger maps. But it could also work for the small maps.
                      The power and damage of each rocket should be decreased by the number of rockets it will turn into.

                      Maybe use a fire selection on the reedemer, like if you press 1 (or nothing) you have the basic redeemer mode, like the old UT versions.
                      Select or press 2 you will a jericho kind of missle, while using the jericho missle you need to laser designate the target.

                      I'm making some concepts for guns, I will try and put this idea in the Redeemer concept!
                      Definitely looking forward to your work!

                      Originally posted by Feralidragon View Post
                      In terms of functionality, I think it should keep the same base as the previous ones, with normal fire being a fire-and-forget warhead, and alt fire a guided one, both able to get shot down, so other than visually, the rest should remain the same.

                      However, I was always underwhelmed about the Redeemer power in itself. For a "devastating" weapon, it surely never felt like one, ever, other than having just a big shockwave coming seemingly from nowhere, doing almost nothing other than giving a ton of damage from the painfully slow shockwave, without a proper bright explosion to it, nor good debris, not any feeling of "sh*t is going down!" to it.
                      I think that this time it should be really a weapon that once you hold you get the feeling of what you're actually holding and what's going to come out from it, and once it explodes it does so in all glory truly devastating all around it (of course, without going too far either).
                      Ahh, c'mon Ferali! You of all should like the Jericho idea! You're the man of the awesome weapons and sick deemer explosions, nevertheless! What we need is a Nuclear Level 4 or 5 blast like in your NaliWeapons 3 mod for the original UT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LFp...PnQ83JrpjogPZQ

                      Comment


                        #12
                        First off as this is my 1st post - hi everyone and I'd like to say I'm really excited about the whole project! Although I have no proper game development background, I do work in creative industries and I always loved the Unreal series so thought it would be great to be able to contribute to one of the franchises that ate up majority of my childhood

                        Anyhow, since I believe the Redeemer to be somewhat an iconic item of UT, here's my few observations:
                        1) UT99 vs UT3: UT99 hands down.
                        The Redeemer is a big gun and by all means should look like a big gun. The new version looks more like next generation Play Station portable rather than a weapon of mass-destruction. I think the whole idea of the weapon taking up a third of one's HUD emphasised the grandeur of it.

                        2) Fire-modes: I am against altering it too much (there is an exception but more about below); I think it is balanced just well enough without making it into an item that almost guarantees killing of everybode else on the map and getting all the frags (hence I am not too keen on the whole Jericho thing - right now it does require some skill to know where and when to fire it).

                        Extra quirks:
                        Heavy: I know we all like our Unreal Unrealistic, but to further highlight that it's a f.. huge gun, it could be that running is disabled while redeemer is equipped? Random thoughts.


                        POSSIBLE REDESIGN/alternate weapon: Quark Cannon/'R2'
                        Click image for larger version

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                        (not sure if I should set up a separate thread for this, but will try my luck here as it is a derivative of Redeemer)

                        The idea comes from a Pencil and Paper version of Fallout (a rpg system for the fans of the game).
                        There is a weapon concept in there that was never used outside of PnP system called MESON Cannon. The whole ideas was that it's a huge dual rocket launcher that fires positive and negative projectile which upon contact with each other create a massive explosion.

                        This gives some possibilities to explore:
                        • LMB to fire first projectile that works just like standard Rocket Launcher (can kill on impact) but when explodes releases particles that bounce in random manner, RMB to fire second projectile that upon impact causes all particles within a certain distance from the impact to explode (and then the ones that are close to first explosion cause secondary explosion etc.), LMB+RMB to fire them simultaneously, which would produce the same result to LMB of Redeemer.
                          This would work well for closed off/tunnel maps, not so effective in open.
                        • LMB to fire a projectile that sticks to surface (does nothing though). You have to fire another projectile with RMB to cause redeemer-esque explosion. In practice would work like a mass-destruction mine, there trade off is if you fail to hit it with RMB it has no effect. If the 'mine' thing is hit with anything prior to the second projectile, it is automatically denied.


                        Either way, I think it has potential for introducing something new so although I do not see this as a direct replacement for Redeemer I think it could spice things up as a mod or an alternative special weapon for some purposes.
                        (probably some more to follow? Anyway, let me know what you think and if there is any interest I will try to develop this concept a little further.)
                        Last edited by zergkills; 05-24-2014, 12:51 PM.

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                          #13
                          Instead of remote control have it fire like a ordinary rockey but with the option to manually ride (kamikaze) the redeemer like in the strangelove mod.

                          would be lol

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Yes! I want the ability to surf on a redeemer rocket (hold 'use' key while firing?). It would have the same remote control scheme, LMB to fire random shots in a cone below you, RMB to prematurely detonate. No dismount.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Brankster View Post
                              Ahh, c'mon Ferali! You of all should like the Jericho idea! You're the man of the awesome weapons and sick deemer explosions, nevertheless! What we need is a Nuclear Level 4 or 5 blast like in your NaliWeapons 3 mod for the original UT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LFp...PnQ83JrpjogPZQ

                              Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the Jericho idea at all. In fact, I intended to make a weapon like it for the original UT (along with the weapon pack you just mentioned), but I ended not doing it.
                              But I don't think that would be a "Redeemer" anymore. Maybe as a new weapon, or a mod, it would be awesome, but not as the Redeemer.
                              The Redeemer imo should remain as it was in the past UT iterations, which makes it fun to use, unique and actually very balanced.

                              But the explosion should be something bigger and something that "looks" more powerful, as the UT3 one was a complete utter letdown, it was the sissy one among all the UT redeemers (from the weapon to the actual effects, none of them felt powerful for a weapon called "Redeemer", maybe "Redeemer Junior", but not "Redeemer"), the UT2k4 suffered a bit of the same (a tiny looking weapon, and the explosion doesn't look like something worth of UE2, it was just slapped in and done with), but the explosion was big enough.
                              The one that looks more menacing is still the original UT one, by just looking at the weapon itself you know it's powerful, and the extent and look of the shockwave still feels menacing.

                              You say a bit like my level 4 or 5 nukes, I would say maybe along the lines of the level 5 nuke, but at a much smaller scale of course, or maybe something like this:
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1xkqXfoqvU (but also at a much smaller scale of course, just pointing out the effects, mostly on the spherical part, from 0:23 onwards)

                              Regardless, it certainly has to have certain kinds of key effects to feel powerful:
                              - be bright (dynamic lighting, big radius)
                              - have a powerful sound (my personal technique for this was to pickup some normal explosion and thunder sounds and work a lot on the bass, making it as intense as possible, lowering the pitch and eliminate most of the higher pitched sounds, along with some doppling and other small touches here and there, and have a bass-only variation for the sound to be heard when you're far away and only lower frequencies reach you, although with UE4 this may be able to get done dynamically)
                              - look destructive (shake screen properly and generate debris: the UT3 one actually has this, but they're so small and look so light....)
                              - look as if it's generating a ton of heat (a combination of the heat colors, glows and post-processing distortion effects, maybe some environment effects although these are harder to pull)
                              - displace a good amount of the air (air rings and the shockwave itself)
                              - having after effects (dust, smoke, etc, non-damaging stuff that is still left behind afterwards for a little while, which also has some gameplay utility to it)
                              Last edited by Feralidragon; 05-25-2014, 06:57 AM.

                              Weapons of mass destruction | Community UT mods

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