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Please nerf stinger primary, flak primary and rockets.

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    Please nerf stinger primary, flak primary and rockets.

    I think the title basically says it all. When people abuse the stinger/link beam it makes the game not fun for me. I also hate that rockets can kill you in one hit, it's extremely frustrating to die to rockets being spammed down hallways as you try to leave your base. The weapon is way too easy to hit with.

    I feel like most people want this to happen. I'm so tired of complaining about it, please just change it already.

    #2
    Nerf Flak primary. Decrease the frequency with which you can Link pull. Reduce rocket speed slightly. Try "grenade" Bio primary. Less damage/knockback for stinger secondary, primary should take more ammo and do slightly less damage, as well as have a longer spin-up time. Enforcer should do less damage.

    ^That about sums up what I want done with weapon balance right now.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
      Nerf Flak primary. Decrease the frequency with which you can Link pull. Reduce rocket speed slightly. Try "grenade" Bio primary. Less damage/knockback for stinger secondary, primary should take more ammo and do slightly less damage, as well as have a longer spin-up time. Enforcer should do less damage.

      ^That about sums up what I want done with weapon balance right now.
      I agree with everything here, but removing link pull entirely would be better ... it should have either lockdown or nothing at all.

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        #4
        The pull doesn't bother me as much as the amount of damage it does. The amp should not give full 2x damage for rapid fire weapons like stinger and link. It should probably be more like 1.25-1.5x.

        Even if rockets did 99 dmg it would probably be enough of a nerf.

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          #5
          Before changing rocket/flak* damage/speed/spread/rof/anything I would love to try reversing the decision to make projectiles non-pinpoints. See stoilds post here for more details.

          *Flak is still probably over the top..
          Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

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            #6
            Originally posted by joellll View Post
            Before changing rocket/flak* damage/speed/spread/rof/anything I would love to try reversing the decision to make projectiles non-pinpoints. See stoilds post here for more details.

            *Flak is still probably over the top..
            Ah yes, forgot about that.. I would really, really want to try this as well, because it's definitely one of the main causes of Flak being so easy to hit with. I'm sure it will need damage reduction anyway, but this would be good too.

            Originally posted by gzv View Post
            I agree with everything here, but removing link pull entirely would be better ... it should have either lockdown or nothing at all.
            Personally, I like pull better than lockdown because it's something the Link gunner has to activate intentionally - unlike lockdown, which is sort of mindless since it's always active as long as you're hitting the player. It's also much more annoying to be locked down because you can't move in any direction - even closer to your enemy; with pull you can still move in closer and Flak/Rocket them in the face.

            But right now you can just pull too often and it's impossible to get away, and as Café said, the beam does way too much damage. I'm not sure why it feels like this now, it's like they buffed it a few builds back.. it used to do a reasonable amount of damage, or so it felt. Does pulling someone inflict extra damage on them? If so, that should be removed.
            Last edited by Infiadux; 10-11-2015, 04:47 AM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
              Personally, I like pull better than lockdown because it's something the Link gunner has to activate intentionally - unlike lockdown, which is sort of mindless since it's always active as long as you're hitting the player. It's also much more annoying to be locked down because you can't move in any direction - even closer to your enemy; with pull you can still move in closer and Flak/Rocket them in the face.
              It dumbfounds me that someone could actually like the pull. I hate it so much.

              To quote my brother, "the link is absolutely pants on head retarded. If that's how it ends up in the final game I might not even play."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by joellll View Post
                Before changing rocket/flak* damage/speed/spread/rof/anything I would love to try reversing the decision to make projectiles non-pinpoints. See stoilds post here for more details.

                *Flak is still probably over the top..
                This ... It is incredible how often I thought I dodged a rocket and got killed nevertheless. Feels really strange in UT4. And imo it is not the faster velocity which makes me fail dodge them, I'd blame the camera position and/or projectile hitbox size.

                Other than that, I'd gladly return to the linkgun with lockdown. But it should only **** your movement, not your aim.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by gzv View Post
                  It dumbfounds me that someone could actually like the pull. I hate it so much.

                  To quote my brother, "the link is absolutely pants on head retarded. If that's how it ends up in the final game I might not even play."
                  I wouldn't say I LIKE it, if I'm being pulled it doesn't feel nice. But it's not any worse than being bounced by a rocket or a stinger shard (it's a lot better than being knocked back by a stinger shard, actually). I hated lockdown when that was in because it screwed up your movement and thus your aim, you couldn't get away from it, you couldn't strafe for too long before you would get totally locked down again, you couldn't get closer to the enemy to Flak them in the face.. the only thing you could do is kill them before they kill you, and that's really hard to do when you are too far to use rockets/flak and can't aim properly so sniper/mini is useless.

                  Pull is not nearly as bad as it doesn't CONSTANTLY mess with your aim, you can still get away by strafing most of the time, or you can get closer to your enemy and fight them with RL/Flak. It just does too much damage right now and you can spam it too often (I see people literally just walking forward while following someone and link pulling them now, instead of dodging to try to catch up - the pull keeps the other person from getting away).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Danielito View Post
                    This ... It is incredible how often I thought I dodged a rocket and got killed nevertheless. Feels really strange in UT4. And imo it is not the faster velocity which makes me fail dodge them, I'd blame the camera position and/or projectile hitbox size.
                    It's the pawn overlap sphere used on all projectiles. In the Trident and Eightball variants I've reduced the radius by 30% because of this issue. Damage is also reduced to 90 for Trident Rockets.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                      I wouldn't say I LIKE it, if I'm being pulled it doesn't feel nice. But it's not any worse than being bounced by a rocket or a stinger shard (it's a lot better than being knocked back by a stinger shard, actually). I hated lockdown when that was in because it screwed up your movement and thus your aim, you couldn't get away from it, you couldn't strafe for too long before you would get totally locked down again, you couldn't get closer to the enemy to Flak them in the face.. the only thing you could do is kill them before they kill you, and that's really hard to do when you are too far to use rockets/flak and can't aim properly so sniper/mini is useless.

                      Pull is not nearly as bad as it doesn't CONSTANTLY mess with your aim, you can still get away by strafing most of the time, or you can get closer to your enemy and fight them with RL/Flak. It just does too much damage right now and you can spam it too often (I see people literally just walking forward while following someone and link pulling them now, instead of dodging to try to catch up - the pull keeps the other person from getting away).
                      I don't understand/agree with what you're saying here at all.

                      Being hitscan makes this much worse than rocket bounce, and personally I find it affects my aim far more than lockdown ever did.
                      Last edited by gzv; 10-11-2015, 06:10 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The pull is absolutely fine imo, the issue with link secondary is that because of how close the directional damage indicators are to the centre of the screen, combined with how many of them you get when being link secondary'd, combined with the effect of the link secondary on your screen, your vision is quite obscured and I think this is what truly causes people to feel like they can't aim when getting hit by it. The actual act of getting pulled doesn't really feel like a massive issue to me, I just think the time between pulls should be increased so it feels like something you have to hit rather than something you spam left click for.

                        I agree stinger primary does do too much damage, I feel like mid-long range tracking hit scan is a tough thing to balance, and I'd say the mini right now isn't a particularly interesting or fun weapon outside of shard jumping.

                        Flak cannon again I think does do too much damage, I would actually like to see the damage reduced quite significantly but the speed of the shards increased slightly with the hope that this would cause the weapon to be a bit more consistent to hit with rather than the I'm going to do 0 or 180 damage feeling you often get with it right now. Also the random damage of the flak secondary is quite frustrating (at least I think the shards that come from the secondary are not deterministic, could be wrong).

                        The rocket launcher doing 100 damage isn't something I personally take much issue with, but I can see that this would be a greater issue in certain game modes than others, where as you say it is possible to be effective spamming down a corridor, although I do wonder if it's a map design issue at that point.

                        On the point somebody made about the enforcer, I feel like the damage it does is fine. I don't think it outclasses any of the weapons you can pick up (except the bio), and I like that a weapon you start with can do decent damage if you aim well.
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                          #13
                          Flak just needs a damage nerf. If the centre shard was entirely removed it'd do 144 damage max. Tell me that's not perfect. :P

                          Stinger is definitely broken in all respects. I'd be happy to see the primary damage halved and made a bit more accurate to it feels less rng based. The secondary is perhaps the most disproportionately powerful thing in the game as it essentially puts stinger on par with shock pri, if not better in a medium range fight. 45 damage is just too much for something that fires fast, does insane amounts of knockback and travels at an almost hitscan speed when up close.

                          Link pull isn't so much of an issue in my eyes but I imagine it's significantly worse in ctf. The primary has stupid dps though, firing incredibly rapidly with a stupid damage per shot and travelling fast, I'd happily see a nerf to one or two of those aspects.

                          Rockets aren't too much of an issue compared to the others but as I said it's probably more obvious in ctf.

                          I hope epic are prepared to nerf the other weapons as much as they have done to shock. I see very few people who would disagree with the fact that flak/stinger/rox are op
                          :|

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Rockets are much more noticeable in CTF, because it's easy to have 2-3 people spamming them during a fight. It's hard to explain, it just seems like it doesn't take much skill to use them. Also the reduction in splash damage and splash radius makes it even easier for people to fire rockets at close range and take practically no self damage. The same goes for rocket grenades, which can be fired at an enemy, while standing on the flag stand, for an almost guaranteed kill and virtually no self damage. The spread that the grenades follow coupled with a large collision radius can make it really easy to lock down a flag. They just feel skill-less and spammy.

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                              #15
                              I agree that the most frustrating weapon is the flak. I think I'm OK with the damage. But it seems too easy to hit with espacially in mid distance where the damage should very low

                              For mini, I'm OK with damage as well. But come on, too many ammo (as link secondary). So too spammy.

                              For rocket, a direct hit deserves to be 100 damage. But as the flak, it is to easy to hit. To big hitbox or size of the projectiles? Cool for air rocket but frustrating in CTF or duel after dying.
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