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Please nerf stinger primary, flak primary and rockets.

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    Originally posted by cafe View Post
    I think the title basically says it all. When people abuse the stinger/link beam it makes the game not fun for me. I also hate that rockets can kill you in one hit, it's extremely frustrating to die to rockets being spammed down hallways as you try to leave your base. The weapon is way too easy to hit with.

    I feel like most people want this to happen. I'm so tired of complaining about it, please just change it already.
    I agree that stinger/link need dmg reduction, but not with rockets. It's an explosive rocket. If a rocket hits your body, you should die. End of story. The rocket launcher as it is, is very similar to the other UT games, which is a hallmark of the franchise IMO.

    Comment


      Stinger imo is actually too weak on primary and too strong on alt fire. It would be interesting if they lowered re-fire on alt fire, and merely altered it to extend the hitscan diameter to 4-5x the size of the aiming icon against a player it hits, like a semi-homing chaingun, and simultaneously tagging them visually which would last maybe 5 seconds. In order to balance a improved primary damage stinger if raised, make it take 40%-50% longer to charge up, but make a VERY LOUD charge noise so you know they are nearby and cannot ambush you.

      Link merely needs its beam damage decreased(or damage removed with the ability to fire primary simultaneously and a slow effect on beam), so that the primary fire is the main fire of choice. Pull means less if the beam isn't doing so much damage.

      If you want instakill body rockets they should have their rocket speed reduced by a large amount. Plus small splash-spread rockets is just another basic gun. To distinguish between rockets and other weapons (which with 8 main slots should be absolutely ESSENTIAL), rockets should be primarily splash damage based. If you want instakill rockets use the triple rocket altfire.

      Flak needs to be instakill only at well aimed very close range. The alt fire needs a distance buff.

      Ideally all weapons should stand out in both form and Function, and instakill should be rare(redeemer, close range flak, trip rocket, headshot, or perfect distance shock combo).

      Extra Note**** - Instakill should be rare for another reason. If you want instakill to be common perhaps you should play Instagib. The modes are already available and played. The entire purpose of THAT mode is the ability to instakill players over and over. The whole point of normal modes is so DODGING matters, and damage upon an enemy remains consistent, not cheap.
      Last edited by LordPookums; 10-27-2015, 04:21 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by LordPookums View Post
        Stinger imo is actually too weak on primary
        Kinda perplexed on how I can agree to everything you said, but this, and or anything to do with homing bullets on what is already one of the franchises most effective weapons.

        Mini doesn't burst a lot of damage, but what it does do it guaranteed damage, the idea of which should cause anyone pause when talking about buffs. I think the cone on it is fine right now. It limits the range well, without also being too forgiving up close. It's just a bit too damaging. You can basically swipe with it and do okay, really doesn't require sustained trace aim, and If you have sustained trace aim, it rivals other burst damage, which shouldn't be the case since you can't really dodge it.
        Originally posted by Mysterial
        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

        Comment


          Flak primary really just shouldn't be an instakill on someone with a stack, it's never going to be balanced or fun to play with or against if it can gib someone who is 100 100 or similar.

          Something like 150 damage is still a huge amount of damage for something that fires fast and is easy to hit, but it's significantly less broken than what we have now.
          :|

          Comment


            Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
            Flak primary really just shouldn't be an instakill on someone with a stack, it's never going to be balanced or fun to play with or against if it can gib someone who is 100 100 or similar.

            Something like 150 damage is still a huge amount of damage for something that fires fast and is easy to hit, but it's significantly less broken than what we have now.
            Yeah, I'd like to see the center shard removed.

            Shock isn't much better either, if you set up a trap you can do like 170 damage from a decent range. I have to check every corner before going for armor on ASDF or I'll be left with 20HP. Really need to give that humming sound a try.

            Comment


              Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
              Kinda perplexed on how I can agree to everything you said, but this, and or anything to do with homing bullets on what is already one of the franchises most effective weapons.

              Mini doesn't burst a lot of damage, but what it does do it guaranteed damage, the idea of which should cause anyone pause when talking about buffs. I think the cone on it is fine right now. It limits the range well, without also being too forgiving up close. It's just a bit too damaging. You can basically swipe with it and do okay, really doesn't require sustained trace aim, and If you have sustained trace aim, it rivals other burst damage, which shouldn't be the case since you can't really dodge it.
              I'm mostly trying to find a way to make stinger standout and not be second fiddle to other weapons once the alt-fire on it is balanced. Most weapons seem to beat stinger at a distance if the player in question is not able to adequately use and land alt-fire in conjuction with its primary. This is why i state the primary needs rework. If I see two players one with rockets and one with stinger at a long range distance...I would bet on the rocket player to kill stinger player first which is usually the case. Sniper tends to beat stinger when i watch two players go at it. Shock players tend to beat stinger by wall blocking and emerging. Hell even linkgun Primary seems to go toe to toe with stinger Primary at distance. I understand the link primary winning at medium or close distance, but it seems to win a lot at far distances as well. If the alt-fire is balanced, there is no point in maintaining a weapon that simply would lose the majority of the time.

              The stingers primary ability to steal kills imo makes it seem stronger. This is why i suggested a damage buff while making it wind up a lot longer with a LOUD sound so players can easily avoid a player while its active. This would let it damage more successfully in its niche while softening its kill steal ability with its audible hum, causing players to retreat behind cover. The long windup, gives them a moment to react. The semi-Homing alt-fire addition is more description. Its trace based ...so it obviously can't curve. If the alt-fire is altered to make light up when hit, and increase the cone of the weapon to check against RMB-lit players -> in addtion to a longer cycle up speed -> then it would really only be useful at the start of a battle or against a retreating player. The Highlight would allow the player with the stinger equipped to chase the player while granting information on if they truly fled or if they paused behind the wall for those 5 seconds of wall sight. This would give the alt-fire some additional benefits, but have no use for increased damage potential outside the start of a battle.

              In truth, such a change to alt-fire (and even a strong, Long windup primary) would be a debuff, but with an additional niche attached. The increased cone for lit players is much less useful then it sounds. It would however make the stinger be more unique to other weapons, and remove the alt-fire from being simply ANOTHER GUN SHOT. There are FAR FAR TOO many of those, and the stinger really doesn't need one. We have sniper LMG, shock LMB, shock core, link primary, Enforcer LMB and RMB, Rocket Primary, Bio LMB and Flak RMB. Shock has the ability to combo, but that is hardly a compelling reason alone to call it truly unique. Add in Stinger LMB, and we really really do not need Stinger Alt-fire or so many weapons that shoot essentially the same thing with slightly different values. In fact A large number of these weapons effects need to change.

              We have 8 Main weapons.Two and in rare cases 3 projectile/trace bullets from each. These weapons should not feel this similar. Its one thing in CoD, battlefield, (insert yearly non-arena franchise here) where you have 50+ weapons and thus limit uniqueness mostly to CLASS types. With only 8 main weapons, all should feel UNIQUE.

              This is also why I made statement about rocket in first post. More splash based, less gun like. In 2008 and previous having similar weapons was acceptable. Between the recent influx of shooters, if there is a limited weapon palette they must present differently.

              Comment


                The problem is the wind up will further disenfranchise the primary from the secondary. I'd rather have a powerful secondary (especially since it's projectile), and follow up finish with a weaker, quick spinning primary, than have each fire mode be standalone OP.

                Too much RoF, Cone, Bullet speed, and damage just aren't rewarding enough to use, especially when you can mostly pre-spin the weapon. Never mind how there is no fun counter play for it. I'd rather see an all projectile version of 2k4 mini, with a tyridium stylized U1 mini skin.

                This is all, also in terms of imagining having slower, more dodgeable rockets. Currently, they compare well, both are just not rewarding to frag with.
                Last edited by nubizZz; 10-28-2015, 02:41 AM.
                Originally posted by Mysterial
                An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by cafe View Post
                  I think the title basically says it all. When people abuse the stinger/link beam it makes the game not fun for me. I also hate that rockets can kill you in one hit, it's extremely frustrating to die to rockets being spammed down hallways as you try to leave your base. The weapon is way too easy to hit with.

                  I feel like most people want this to happen. I'm so tired of complaining about it, please just change it already.
                  Don't worry cafe friend, we got pumpkins so stop complaining.

                  Stinger is ridiculous. Secondary needs to be removed and entirely reworked. Ammo dropped to 200. Flak needs to be less like a sniper rifle and more like a flak cannon (see UT99 for a good example). Rockets are just terrible. Revert to UT99-style rockets where holding primary loads rockets, secondary shoots grenades automatically. Perhaps slow the rate of loading.
                  Purveyor of Unreal Tournament.

                  <khxmz> thanksgiving is about being thankful for what you have nvz, not asking your favorite game developer for more hats

                  Comment


                    I don't like the nerf word for this nor do I have the time to read all the comments in this thread, but my honest opinion is that Rockets shouldn't have full 100 direct or splash damage.
                    I think that 100 comes too much from Quake players, it is good, but not in this game as movement is slower. 95 or 90 would be much better for weapon equality. Even 99dmg would be much improvement.

                    Now I have contributed by giving opinions about shock and rockets, now I'm fine Now we need Campgrounds if there isn't already. Or have to start creating

                    Comment


                      Seriously.. its an age old topic and *nothing* is being done about it... I've gotten sick of the link and stinger, and at the moment would honestly not miss them if they were completely removed
                      The worst part is that the bots seem to use the link exclusively, a gun that can kill you in the time it takes to do a shock combo, its basically an instagib weapon with Udamage.. and some map devs decide to put *two* of these in the map.

                      If the link spawn was taken out of spacer, there would be a lot less complaints about not being able to complete the map.

                      Have the dev's actually said anything about it? they seem to be completely ignoring the topic despite most people being unanimously against how overpowered the spam weapons are.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by rAge. View Post
                        Perfect description of shock, "better change it to another weapon"

                        I made a little list of changes possibly needed to repair weapon balance:

                        Enforcer:
                        • 16-17 damage
                        • more ammo
                        • decrease ROF of double enforcer.


                        Link Gun:
                        • Remove any pull / influence on movement
                        • Primary = 18 damage OR less ROF (dps must be lowered)
                        • remove possibility to destroy shock cores
                        • Less ammo
                        • pinpoint instead of hitbox (Stolid's post)


                        Minigun:
                        • 10 damage (primary)
                        • Less ammo
                        • Longer first phase, when the rof is slower


                        Flak Cannon:
                        • 150 damage
                        • More centered spread
                        • Damage scaling on distance (50% after few metres etc)
                        • pinpoint instead of hitbox (Stolid's post)


                        Rocket Launcher:
                        • 6% decrease of speed
                        • 95 damage
                        • higher bounce
                        • 3 rox possible only in one direction. (Mouse movement shouldn't have affect on direction of every single rocket in 3pack)
                        • pinpoint instead of hitbox (Stolid's post)


                        Shock Rifle:
                        • Remove possibility to block sniper bullets by shock core
                        • 50 damage for core
                        • Core should be super noisy to avoid stomboers
                        • More ammo
                        • Better scaling of damage* (I explained what I mean below)


                        Sniper Rifle:
                        • PERFECT


                        Bio Rifle:
                        • Needs redesign
                        I'm going to make a post similar to this, just to provide some basic feedback for some weapon balance tweaks that I think really need to happen.

                        Impact Hammer:
                        -The damage while hammer jumping really needs to be reduced. Make it something like UT3's where the starting value could be something like 15 (single left click to the ground), and build up to 50 (fully charged). The more it's charged, the farther you should go when hammer jumping.
                        -Fix the hammer jumping mechanics. As it currently stands, hammer jumping feels horrible to perform, and it's way too easy to do it. The pattern should be for vertical hammer jumping: Aim down (doesn't have to be COMPLETELY FACING DOWN!), jump (or dodge in any direction for slightly less height, but farther distance), then left click (IMMEDIATELY after jumping / dodging), & then jump to use the jump boots (if you have them, for 2x the height). The pattern for horizontal hammer jumping should be: Aim towards a wall & charge, jump, dodge back & release, then press jump again to use jump boots if you have them (for 2x the distance).
                        -As of now, someone who installed the game can hammer jump within 10 seconds of playing the game, because it takes absolutely no skill at all. That is absurd.

                        Enforcer:
                        -Make the alternate fire rapid fire with less accuracy (like UT99's Enforcer)
                        -Enforcer shots should be reduced to 18 damage. However, to compensate, ammo should be slightly increased (it IS the starting gun...)

                        Bio Rifle:
                        -The goo following people has to go. It just makes the game way too spammy and non-skilled.
                        -Goo should ALWAYS go where the crosshair is pointing (not spammy and going everywhere like in this game). This should hold true to left-clicking, right-clicking, and left+right clicking.
                        -Primary fire should do 10 damage per hit.
                        -Primary fire needs to shoot in more of an arc, to give the ability to shoot over the top of objects
                        -Secondary fire should also shoot in more of an arc, and max damage should be no higher than 120.

                        Shock Rifle:
                        -Primary fire should have a "thicker" beam effect & the after image should last slightly longer after being shot. This would help increase visual clarity.
                        -Primary fire should do 45 damage, not 40.
                        -Secondary fire should do 50 damage.
                        -Ammo should be slightly increased.

                        Link Gun:
                        -Primary fire - 20 damage. Speed should be slightly decreased. Size of the plasma should be slightly increased for better visual clarity.
                        -Secondary: Ammo gets used up way too slow. The speed at which it gets used should be doubled, or even tripled.
                        -Pull needs to be removed completely or reduced greatly for a far less violent affect. Lock-down would be a much better option than pull.

                        Stinger Minigun:
                        -Primary should do slightly less damage, but slightly faster rate of fire to compensate. Ammo usage should be higher.
                        -Secondary moves too fast, and each hit should do 25 damage.

                        Flak Cannon:
                        -Primary fire feels laggy for some reason. My shots feel like they come out way after I click.
                        -Primary fire damage after bouncing off of walls should be decreased.
                        -When you hit someone with ~50% of the Flak primary shot, it does nearly no damage, but when hitting 100%, it does a ridiculous amount of damage. I think both of these values should be moved closer together, to not make the weapon so black and white in terms of damage.

                        Rocket Launcher:
                        -Smoke trails need to be added to the rockets. It is nearly impossible to see them as it is now.
                        -A direct hit with one rocket should do 95 damage.
                        -Rockets move slightly too fast.
                        -Secondary needs to be changed to what it was in UT3, where you hold RMB & release for a 2-3 rocket spread, or left click once for a spiral, left click twice for grenades.
                        -Grenades should shoot slightly farther and in more of an arc, to go higher up. They should also bounce at a slower rate.

                        Sniper Rifle:
                        Feels fine. Maybe just make the trail after shooting slightly more visible.

                        Translocator:
                        -Gravity on the disks should be decreased, allowing them to go a little farther and fall less quickly.

                        MOVEMENT:
                        -Air control should be slightly increased, to help compensate for no double jump. At LEAST for when you have / use the jump boots...
                        -Gravity needs to be increased. The game feels WAYYY too floaty as it is right now. I feel like a balloon when I dodge / jump off of a ledge, as if I'm floating to the ground... you also stay in the air too long after just single jumping in place.

                        Armor values:
                        -Helmet (20) / blocks one headshot
                        -Thigh pads (30)
                        -Armor vest (50)
                        -Shield belt (100)
                        -Obtaining all four of the above adds up to 200 total armor.
                        -When someone gets shot and they have armor (not including belt), it should be more visually apparent. There shouldn't just be silvery / golden sparks / a small glow like there is now, the whole body should glow a bright gold after it gets hit.
                        -When a blue player has a belt, they should glow more light blue, and less white like it is now.

                        Pretty much sums up all of my concerns for the game's balance.
                        Last edited by dangerousShark09; 10-30-2015, 12:07 AM.
                        Unreal Tournament CTFer.
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