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    Dear Epic... You're doing it wrong!

    So I've not made a post in awhile, and I figured it was past time to shake things up a bit. I recently played the latest update to UT, and well... Somethings are nice, like link guns being able to "link up," Skaarj skins, CTF-TitanPass, the Halloween version of CTF-Face, and hell even the auto-taunt that you've given bots is fine and dandy and all... but I am still very disappointed that you guys have yet to get your act together when it comes to fixing armor and weapons. (WHICH FYI, IS A MUCH MORE SERIOUS THAN BOT'S AUTO-TAUNTING.) That being said, I do still have faith you guys will do the right by the community and fix these issues eventually, but when? Here is a list of things that need to be fixed ASAP!

    #1 Armor values still too high!
    Look Epic... I've been saying this for awhile now, and you guys still don't seem to be hearing me, so that's why I'm posting on this topic yet again. (Hopefully I'm not just wasting my energy on this post.) Granted I know you guys reduced the max armor from 200, to 150, and that MAY be a step in the right direction, but it's just not cutting it. It's really not the fix we need to make the game playable from a duelers standpoint.

    Like the entire Duel community agree's with me on this, (no joke!) Let me try to spell out for you why you've got it completely backwards: REGARDLESS OF WHAT ARMOR VALUES YOU DECIDE TO STICK WITH, BETTER PLAYERS WILL STILL GET THE ARMOR. Translation: All you are doing is handicapping the players who are already getting beat (IE: by giving the better players even more of an edge.) Granted, it should be difficult to take control back, but it's nearly impossible right now. Here is how you can fix this problem...

    Belt = 100 Armor
    100% damage absorb for the first hit, then as the % of armor gets whittled down, so does the effectiveness of the belt. Example: If player A grabs belt and has 100 health and 100 armor, and player B shoots player A with a sniper rifle for 70 damage, player A is left with 100 health, and 30 armor. However if player B instead shoots player A with 2 shock beams the first shot will knock player A down to 100 health / 55 armor, now as for the second shot the belt is now at 55% efficiency from that first shock beam. (Battery power, or what ever you want to call it.) When player B's second shock beam impacts with player A, instead of leaving player A with 100 health and 10 armor as it would if the belt was at 100% damage absorb, since the belt is damaged/drained from the previous hit, it will now only absorb 55% of 45 damage, leaving player A with 80 health, and 30 armor, however the belt would then be down to 30% damage absorb for the next hit. Now what would make this REALLY cool, is if the belt began to emit sparks, or the shield around the player began to flicker (or both) to alert other players in the arena that the belt has taken damage. (this animation of course would have to be adjusted depending on how severely the belt has been damaged.
    )


    Vest = 50 Armor
    50-75% damage absorb on the vest is fine, as it covers the body, which is where most hits will land... Location specific damage is a cool idea, however I fear we're still a few years (and/or unreal engines) away from anyone taking the time to add location specific damage.

    Thigh = 25 Armor
    25-50% damage absorb for pads is fine, as these babies, shouldn't be a life or death item players will go out of their way for.

    Helmet = 0 Armor, passive pickup, that absorbs a single sniper/lightning gun headshot.
    This could be similar to the jump boots, where you just carry them on you until you either use it, or lose it, and similar to boots, this could be an item that could be dropped upon death if it isn't used before you die.

    #2 Weapon Damage still too high!
    I do understand that with the current armor values being broken, the weapon damage values HAVE to be broken to compensate, so fix the armor values, then the weapon damage values. Please don't miss-understand me here, I'm not by any means suggesting we turn the game into a tickle-fest, and I am however suggesting that you no longer instakill a player without armor with a single flak spray from 15-20 feet away, right now the game feels like you should rename it to "unFlak Tournament 4," The only instakill I wanna see happening with a flak cannon, is when the player(s) has no armor, AND LITERALLY are within IMPACT HAMMER range. If both of these criteria are not met, then flak cannon instagib should not happen. PERIOD! I mean like seriously no joke here, why use any other weapon if you can just auto-win with Flak? This is not how to balance a weapon, or a game.

    PLZ FIX THIS NOW! (NOT TOMORROW, NOT NEXT WEEK, OR NEXT YEAR... RITE! NAO!)

    #3 When you nerf a weapon, nerf the damage not the ammo *facepalm* Look I understand that when you change a weapon some people will freak out, and I get that the nerf to the shock combo blast radius may have been deemed a necessary evil, and I can see how it can be beneficial in some circumstances, but you don't nerf a weapon like shock by lowering the max combo count to 6. That's just an awful idea and who ever came up with that one needs to be fired from Epic Games! *glares at clawfist* Okay, Okay... Maybe I'm exaggerating a little... No one should get fired for this, but seriously it's BAD! FIX IT! If you wanna fix a weapon then fix the weapon! Tweak the projectile velocity, damage values, blast radius, splash damage values, ect... Don't take away the ammo from something that's been set in stone for nearly 20 years GEEZ! C'mon guys!

    P.S. I know this was your fault, Sydney, don't even try to deny it!

    #4 In with the new doesn't have to mean out with the old!
    I know I'm not the only one who can't stand the new rocket launcher alt fire... If you want rapid fire rocket's that's fine to add as an additional fire mode, but please don't take away my trip spread splash damage as this is a
    linchpin rocket launcher and should not change. Also I want my trip spiral shot back for those sexy *** frag movie air rocket kills... Like really? Why would you guys even think it's a good idea to remove these? I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain this...

    #5 Stop taking one step forward, & two steps back!
    Look so far, I like the game. I like the movement, especially the wall slides, and multi-dodge, and graphically, it looks amazing, but the issues I have mentioned, are really going to hurt the game in the long run if they're not fixed right away. The "Choose your spawn" thing that was added to the DUEL gametype, is a great invention, and should be universal for all gametypes. Think about it this way, if you play CTF you want it to be a challenge for players to get the flag and take it home right? So why make it harder for a player to get back to their task, (be it offense or defense,) simply because they got a random respawn?

    Anywho IMO, these are the most serious issues the game is suffering from right now.
    Last edited by Dr.ToxicVenom; 10-25-2015, 01:27 AM. Reason: Fixing stuff!
    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

    Dr.ToxicVenom: "How bout we duel, and let our skill decide who's right and who's wrong? I'm in Unreal Carnage [Dallas] Right now. Come join."
    MonsOlympus: "How about you work your way up the ranks first then we'll talk LAN, until then. Have fun trying to find people to play against you and your crappy attitude, good night!"
    Dr.ToxicVenom: "DAAAAAAMN! That dodge was almost as good as my multi-dodge. Nice!"

    #2
    Despite the somewhat crude format I think there are some important points here. Imo, the ammo nerfs are a bad way to balance a weapon because it doesn't actually fix the fundamental problems. It's also important to note that while weapon damage and armour values are indeed high, you can't reduce one without reducing the other, for obvious reasons. You can see this kind of problem with shock right now, which received a sizable nerf a few builds back but none of the other weapons followed suit in the same way so there was a lot of complaining about how the shock felt up relative to the other guns. I'd like to see a universal damage nerf and then perhaps a parallel armour value nerf (but maybe only for duel)

    The belt damage absorption idea is genuinely fantastic, I wish i'd thought of that :P
    :|

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
      100% damage absorb for the first hit, then as the % of armor gets whittled down, so does the effectiveness of the belt. Example: If player A grabs belt and has 100 health and 100 armor, and player B shoots player A with a sniper rifle for 70 damage, player A is left with 100 health, and 30 armor. However if player B instead shoots player A with 2 shock beams the first shot will knock player A down to 100 health / 55 armor, now as for the second shot the belt is now at 55% efficiency from that first shock beam. (Battery power, or what ever you want to call it.) When player B's second shock beam impacts with player A, instead of leaving player A with 100 health and 10 armor as it would if the belt was at 100% damage absorb, since the belt is damaged/drained from the previous hit, it will now only absorb 55% of 45 damage, leaving player A with 80 health, and 30 armor, however the belt would then be down to 30% damage absorb for the next hit.
      What is this trying to achieve balance/gameplay wise exactly? Clarify that the amount of shield is equal to the absorption amount.

      Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
      Now what would make this REALLY cool, is if the belt began to emit sparks, or the shield around the player began to flicker (or both) to alert other players in the arena that the belt has taken damage. (this animation of course would have to be adjusted depending on how severely the belt has been damaged.
      This is cash. Add some ambient spark/shield failing noises to go with it. Similar to ql low health pain noises. Boom.
      Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

      Comment


        #4
        Toxic, can you explain the intent behind making the shield effectiveness proportional to how much shield remains? I feel that most players might consider the current principle of "shield = extra hitpoints" to be more intuitive. Right now, if I see that someone has a shield, I know they have somewhere between 100 to 250HP.

        Personally, I'm unhappy with the shield because I always seem to end up in a match with that one guy who ALWAYS has the belt and ALWAYS uses it to stand somewhere and launch shock combos at newly spawned players. I can't really fight that with the Nerf Pistol, and I might just be inexperienced, but I can't ever seem to run away successfully either.

        Comment


          #5
          There's a very simple fix for the belt/armor problem in duels. Do what NA players did in 99, use a mutator to remove belt. Along with invis, keg, deemer and anything new (berserk) that isn't suitable for duels.

          Or you could <gasp> always replace it with something else, another armor, a weaker version of shield (that looks different so it's obvious to non duelers that something is different) or even something entirely new.

          But don't go changing and breaking the entire armor system, which works fine and adds depth to other game modes, just because it's not great for duels The game isn't all about duels, duels are a niche, don't wreck the rest of the game just to please a tiny portion of the playerbase.

          And yes, before someone berates me for not mentioning it, I do realize that right now, in it's current broken buggy pre-alpha state, the relative number of duelers compared to non-duelers is actually quite high (much higher than normal for shooters).

          Change shield, sure fine, but do it in a way that adds depth to the game in an interesting way, not a knee jerk reaction nerf to armor values across the board just to please duelers. Just a few ideas:

          - Put it on a timer equal to the respawn time so if you miss it once, you lose it's advantages and the player who just picked it up gets them.
          - Make it so it doesn't stack with armor at all. Still takes 150 damage with 100% absorption but you can't just pick up armor to top the shield up.
          - Or a more severe nerf that might work well for duels, make it an armor buff on a shorter timer, that increases armor absorption to 100% but only grants 50 armor (on a 30 second timer).

          Honestly I'd rather have ezmode timers removed. They don't really help new players much, about all they really do is turn half decent players with good fragging skills but very little in the way of strategy or tactics and no timing skills into armor/powerup control machines.
          Last edited by MoxNix; 10-24-2015, 03:18 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            1) Yeah lowering armor might be a good thing. I'd say the helmet should maybe provide 10 armor though instead of the headshot protection dealy.

            2) Maybe in some cases, but I do think some weapons should be 1 hit kills. Flak is definitely OP in its current state, rocket launcher feels significantly nerfed compared to previous UT games. Mainly because the alt fire feels nerfed, and that's normally what you would use to freaking wreck high armored opponents. Nothing is gonna survive a cluster of 6 rockets. But then it was cut down to 3, and now the 3 dont even fire at the same time, which really screws with accuracy. Rockets should hurt. Sniper rifles should headshot. But hit point blank with a flak cannon probably should shred you. That isnt to say nerfs can't happen, but I largely think the weapons are on the right track.

            3) Nerfing ammo is stupid, but there are other ways other than nerfing damage to take care of the weapons. You can change the firing rate, you can mess with the accuracy, you can have the damage fall off at a distance. In the case of flak cannon, spread can make a difference. There are many variables one can use to buff and nerf weapons.

            4) I agree. Already aired my complaints with the rocket launcher alt fire feeling really nerfed. Perhaps I could get behind the damage nerf some people propose for it if the alt fire actually felt good. This rapid fire alt fire feels awful to me.

            5) Non random spawns might be a problem that I feel higher level players could exploit (which way WOULD save me 0.4 seconds to get to that sheild belt/redeemer first?!) It works for 2 players but I cant imagine it working for a full on deathmatch game. Other than that, let me just say I largely think this game is on the right track, but wouldnt be opposed to certain tweaks. Some decisions like the bad alt fire on the enforcer, the rocket launcher alt nerf, the shock rifle ammo limit, they dont make sense to me. Still, I'd say this game does a lot more right than wrong. I think most tweaks should be done in the details.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by joellll View Post
              What is this trying to achieve balance/gameplay wise exactly? Clarify that the amount of shield is equal to the absorption amount.
              I'll try to answer both of these with the same reply...

              Originally posted by AccualyIsDolan View Post
              Toxic, can you explain the intent behind making the shield effectiveness proportional to how much shield remains? I feel that most players might consider the current principle of "shield = extra hitpoints" to be more intuitive. Right now, if I see that someone has a shield, I know they have somewhere between 100 to 250HP.

              Personally, I'm unhappy with the shield because I always seem to end up in a match with that one guy who ALWAYS has the belt and ALWAYS uses it to stand somewhere and launch shock combos at newly spawned players. I can't really fight that with the Nerf Pistol, and I might just be inexperienced, but I can't ever seem to run away successfully either.
              Okay so the main reason behind the suggested shield belt effectiveness change is because there is nothing more frustrating than a enemy player grabbing belt, being fully stacked, then chasing after said player for the next 60 seconds, and struggling to whittle that armor down, only for them to get back on belt in the last couple seconds of that minute, camp it for a second, and go from 1hp while they're sitting on top of it and all the sudden *BOOM* they're fully stacked yet again, and then you just die after putting so much effort and punishment into trying to stop that player. The fact that this can happen is a really bad (terrible) joke.

              The idea behind lowering the shield belt effectiveness is that it will no longer make a player into an unstoppable tank, and will effectively put an end to this pathetically cheesy tactic. In addition, all players will have to exercise better timing/map control/movement to become that unstoppable tank, and even so will still have to play smarter to not let the shield belt go to waste. (IE: increasing the skill ceiling for total map control)

              Not that I'm a big fan of UT2004, but in that game the "super shield" which was the shield belt equivalent was 100 armor with I think only like 75% damage absorb, so if you tried to grab the super shield with 1 hp, you might pull it off, but you were gonna get punished for it. In the current iteration of the game there is relatively no punishment for making stupid choices like this, and players get away with garbage game play scott free. In my day, this was called newbish, and in my day UT was not a newbish game.

              Also the quote unquote "nerf pistol" as you call it, is currently over powered at 22 damage per shot, instead of the previously functional 20 damage per shot in UT3, but yet again it has to be this way so long as the armor values are broken.

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              There's a very simple fix for the belt/armor problem in duels. Do what NA players did in 99, use a mutator to remove belt. Along with invis, keg, deemer and anything new (berserk) that isn't suitable for duels.

              Or you could <gasp> always replace it with something else, another armor, a weaker version of shield (that looks different so it's obvious to non duelers that something is different) or even something entirely new.

              But don't go changing and breaking the entire armor system, which works fine and adds depth to other game modes, just because it's not great for duels The game isn't all about duels, duels are a niche, don't wreck the rest of the game just to please a tiny portion of the playerbase.
              Okay so here's where I take issue with your simplistic answer to the problems at hand. MORE THAN JUST THE ARMOR VALUES ARE BROKEN. So that will NOT resolve the major issue that is overpowered weapons allowing for skill-less frags, and spawn kills, which is currently breaking the game.

              You have to fix all major problems to make the game better, not just slap a bandaid on one aspect of the game and call it good. Epic already tried slapping a bandaid on UT3 with the early patches for the game and it didn't get better until after the 2.0 patch when they COMPLETELY revamped the entire interface, and the community released a solid UTComp... Of course by then the entire UT community had already given up on UT3 as a lost cause, and "terrible game," which it really was not.

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              And yes, before someone berates me for not mentioning it, I do realize that right now, in it's current broken buggy pre-alpha state, the relative number of duelers compared to non-duelers is actually quite high (much higher than normal for shooters).

              Change shield, sure fine, but do it in a way that adds depth to the game in an interesting way, not a knee jerk reaction nerf to armor values across the board just to please duelers.
              Can you please explain in what way/shape/form my suggestions benefit duelers over players of other gametypes? (Spell it out for me, don't use blanket statements.)

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              - Put it on a timer equal to the respawn time so if you miss it once, you lose it's advantages and the player who just picked it up gets them.
              I don't understand what you mean by this, please explain.

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              - Make it so it doesn't stack with armor at all. Still takes 150 damage with 100% absorption but you can't just pick up armor to top the shield up.
              Again, as I said before, this doesn't address the problem at hand. By having such an overpowered powerup, you have to keep the weapons in their current overpowered, spawn-rapey, low-skill, (terrible) state, and that breaks the game in other ways. Therefore this is not a valid solution even worth mentioning. This is basically the same as saying "let's leave the shield belt as is"

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              - Or a more severe nerf that might work well for duels, make it an armor buff on a shorter timer, that increases armor absorption to 100% but only grants 50 armor (on a 30 second timer).
              Yeah I don't know about this one, it might work, but I have a feeling that there would be a huge community backlash by doing this.

              Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
              Honestly I'd rather have ezmode timers removed. They don't really help new players much, about all they really do is turn half decent players with good fragging skills but very little in the way of strategy or tactics and no timing skills into armor/powerup control machines.
              The quote unquote "ezmode timers" as you call them, were actually added for a reason, and I can't stand the fact that people keep trying to debate it because it's not what they're used to. This seems to annoy the elitist diehards, who are against any type of narrowing the massive skill gap and/or giving any advantages to new players. This mentality of "screw the newbs" is what causes Unreal Tournament games to die. Obviously the diehards are going to beat the living **** out of new comers, so we should be giving them anything we can to help them not rage-uninstall the game forever, that way the community can grow and thrive, not wither and die. The simple fix is to make it so you can disable them clientside to keep everyone happy. This is however a completely separate topic, so I'm going to leave it at that.

              Originally posted by JonWood007 View Post
              5) Non random spawns might be a problem that I feel higher level players could exploit (which way WOULD save me 0.4 seconds to get to that sheild belt/redeemer first?!) It works for 2 players but I cant imagine it working for a full on deathmatch game. Other than that, let me just say I largely think this game is on the right track, but wouldnt be opposed to certain tweaks.
              It would be on the map maker to design maps where that would not be problematic, which would result in better maps, and a better game, which would result in a better end user experience.
              Last edited by Dr.ToxicVenom; 10-25-2015, 01:29 AM. Reason: adding comment about the "nerf pistol"
              Trust me, I'm a doctor.

              Dr.ToxicVenom: "How bout we duel, and let our skill decide who's right and who's wrong? I'm in Unreal Carnage [Dallas] Right now. Come join."
              MonsOlympus: "How about you work your way up the ranks first then we'll talk LAN, until then. Have fun trying to find people to play against you and your crappy attitude, good night!"
              Dr.ToxicVenom: "DAAAAAAMN! That dodge was almost as good as my multi-dodge. Nice!"

              Comment


                #8
                I'm really not a fan of doing a global nerf of all the weapons. Because we had weak weapons in UT2004, and that combined with the floaty movement made the weapons feel weak and just generally not as fun at all as 99's weapons at all. I REALLY don't want to go back to that. I'm sorry. Having said that, yes, some of the weapons do need some balancing still but global nerfs across the board is really not the way to do this. Take the Shock Rifle right now in its present state. A global nerf would just make it even more pathetic.
                And still I wait...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                  Okay so the main reason behind the suggested shield belt effectiveness change is because there is nothing more frustrating than a enemy player grabbing belt, being fully stacked, then chasing after said player for the next 60 seconds, and struggling to whittle that armor down, only for them to get back on belt in the last couple seconds of that minute, camp it for a second, and go from 1hp while they're sitting on top of it and all the sudden *BOOM* they're fully stacked yet again, and then you just die after putting so much effort and punishment into trying to stop that player. The fact that this can happen is a really bad (terrible) joke.
                  So the main goal is to stop low health pickups/steals of the belt?
                  Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by joellll View Post
                    So the main goal is to stop low health pickups/steals of the belt?
                    No, but if you change this sentence to "So the main goal is to stop super low health players, picking up of the belt, UNPUNISHED for putting themselves at risk in an already grim situation" then you would be hitting the nail closer to the head.

                    Originally posted by Arnox_BU View Post
                    I'm really not a fan of doing a global nerf of all the weapons. Because we had weak weapons in UT2004, and that combined with the floaty movement made the weapons feel weak and just generally not as fun at all as 99's weapons at all. I REALLY don't want to go back to that. I'm sorry. Having said that, yes, some of the weapons do need some balancing still but global nerfs across the board is really not the way to do this. Take the Shock Rifle right now in its present state. A global nerf would just make it even more pathetic.
                    No one is suggesting we remake 2k4, that would be awful. As I stated before: "The only instakill I wanna see happening with a flak cannon, is when the player(s) has no armor, AND LITERALLY are within IMPACT HAMMER range. If both of these criteria are not met, then flak cannon instagib should not happen. "
                    Last edited by Dr.ToxicVenom; 10-25-2015, 01:28 AM.
                    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

                    Dr.ToxicVenom: "How bout we duel, and let our skill decide who's right and who's wrong? I'm in Unreal Carnage [Dallas] Right now. Come join."
                    MonsOlympus: "How about you work your way up the ranks first then we'll talk LAN, until then. Have fun trying to find people to play against you and your crappy attitude, good night!"
                    Dr.ToxicVenom: "DAAAAAAMN! That dodge was almost as good as my multi-dodge. Nice!"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post

                      The quote unquote "ezmode timers" as you call them, were actually added for a reason, and I can't stand the fact that people keep trying to debate it because it's not what they're used to. This seems to annoy the elitist diehards, who are against any type of narrowing the massive skill gap and/or giving any advantages to new players. This mentality of "screw the newbs" is what causes Unreal Tournament games to die. Obviously the diehards are going to beat the living **** out of new comers, so we should be giving them anything we can to help them not rage-uninstall the game forever, that way the community can grow and thrive, not wither and die. The simple fix is to make it so you can disable them clientside to keep everyone happy. This is however a completely separate topic, so I'm going to leave it at that.
                      I don't want to start a flamewar but seriously, why should a new player have ANY advantages over a seasoned player? Besides maybe thinking outside the box and playing with a fresh new strategy that the veterans disregarded and forgot a long time ago. But almost anything other than that is basically a stupid artificial handicap. By narrowing the "massive skill gap" you are lowering the skill ceiling and thus decreasing the longevity of the game. If after a year of playing the newbies don't have anything new to learn, they are going to move on to Call of Duty: Black Ops 7, rather than stick around for the next 15 years to come. It seems you are one of those people who don't want to put in the time to become better at the game and want to be as good as the pros without doing the hard work. (Duel challenge coming in 3...2...1..)


                      As for the shield belt, I'm up for trying a non-100% absorption, but IMO it would be too confusing to have it change all the time as your shield value goes down. It should be constant. We could start off with something like 85-90% so that it's considerably higher than other armor absorption but you still die in one hit if you have 1HP and belt.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                        No, but if you change this sentence to "So the main goal is to stop super low health players, picking up of the belt, UNPUNISHED for putting themselves at risk in an already grim situation" then you would be hitting the nail closer to the head.
                        Semantics/feelings garbage The aim is essentially to make the belt less viable for low health players? This is a reasonable goal, however you will need to explain why your proposed variable belt achieves this.
                        Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                          As for the shield belt, I'm up for trying a non-100% absorption, but IMO it would be too confusing to have it change all the time as your shield value goes down. It should be constant. We could start off with something like 85-90% so that it's considerably higher than other armor absorption but you still die in one hit if you have 1HP and belt.
                          You will die with 1hp at 90%, however for higher amounts of health (1hp is surely an exaggeration and we are really talking sub 20 here) high absorption is still problematic if the goal is for players to die. For example at 90% a player with 10 health will use the majority of the belt, requiring ~100 damage to kill.

                          At 85% a player with 10 health can take 70 damage and at 20 health uses the entire belt before dying, 120 damage total.

                          If the real aim is to stop 1hp pickups then yeah, ok, it would achieve that. However are we really talking 1hp here or simply low numbers, the sort that would die to a single mini bullet or one tick of pulse primary? Neither of which is 1hp.

                          For the record I have no qualms changing it to 85 or 90%, just making sure you guys are aware of the numbers involved
                          Last edited by joellll; 10-25-2015, 05:02 AM.
                          Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by joellll View Post
                            You will die with 1hp at 90%, however for higher amounts of health (1hp is surely an exaggeration and we are really talking sub 20 here) high absorption is still problematic. For example at 90% a player with 10 health will use the majority of the belt, requiring ~100 damage to kill.

                            At 85% a player with 10 health can take 70 damage and at 20 health uses the entire belt before dying, 120 damage total.

                            If the real aim is to stop 1hp pickups then yeah, ok, it would achieve that. However are we really talking 1hp here or simply low numbers, the sort that would die to a single mini bullet or one tick of pulse primary? Neither of which is 1hp.

                            For the record I have no qualms changing it to 85 or 90%, just making sure you guys are aware of the numbers involved
                            Yeah I was thinking something like dying from a single sniper shot with 10HP would be reasonable. I don't want it to have too little absorption because it basically reverses the issue - makes things more annoying for the player in control (doesn't feel nice when you just barely got that belt but the guy with 1HP who didn't even challenge for it snipes you and you're dead in one shot) rather than the out-of-control player (finally getting someone's belt off only to have them pick up the next one and having to do everything all over again).

                            Right now, it would sort of make sense to have low absorption because the out-of-control player is at too big of a disadvantage due to how the armor system works in general (so it's good to take away ANY advantage we can from the in-control player). But I feel it's a band-aid solution that doesn't really address the underlying issues.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                              Okay so here's where I take issue with your simplistic answer to the problems at hand. MORE THAN JUST THE ARMOR VALUES ARE BROKEN. So that will NOT resolve the major issue that is overpowered weapons allowing for skill-less frags, and spawn kills, which is currently breaking the game.
                              Ok, first off I didn't say only armor values are broken. In fact I never even said armor values are broken.

                              I merely chose to respond to only that part of your post. The rest is more complicated and would take a lot longer to phrase a cogent response.

                              And BTW, though weapons certainly do need tuning AFAIC most of the problems with weapons are due to the netcode and in the case of projectiles the radius on them. Take away the radius on rockets and flak shards and they probably won't be nearly as easy to hit with. Besides that, fix the nextcode, prediction, ping comp, time rewind or w/e causes all the crazy "lag", warping, hit registration issues, etc., and then we can start talking about which weapons actually are under or over powered.

                              Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                              Can you please explain in what way/shape/form my suggestions benefit duelers over players of other gametypes? (Spell it out for me, don't use blanket statements.)
                              I made that comment because most of what you're saying is pretty much exactly what the duelers (or at least the most vocal duelers) say. Just about all of it, not just the parts about the shield belt. Besides I'm pretty sure when you were posting here a few months ago you described yourself as a "pro" and kept talking about duels.

                              Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                              I don't understand what you mean by this, please explain.
                              I mean it's on a timer that runs out, like amp or invis. If it's on a 60 second timer, it runs out and respawns 60 seconds after it was picked up. If you had the shield but someone else picks it up when it respawns then he's got the shield now and your shield is gone.

                              All three of my shield change suggestions were just that suggestions... All are nerfs though the first 2 aren't huge nerfs and keep the flavour of the shield just make it more difficult to have full shield all the time. For a bigger nerf both could be done at the same time too.

                              The 3rd idea is a bigger nerf (100 armor would almost certainly become more desirable then) and yes there probably would be a huge backlash over that one. Too bad since I think it's the most interesting one of them all adding more strategic/tactical implications, making control more difficult and decision making choices more... difficult? Interesting? ... Whatever... Less of a no-brainer anyhow... I was really tempted to say it should give no armor, just the absorption buff, but the problem with that is getting it would be useless (other than to deny it to other players) without first getting some armor.

                              Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                              The quote unquote "ezmode timers" as you call them, were actually added for a reason, and I can't stand the fact that people keep trying to debate it because it's not what they're used to. This seems to annoy the elitist diehards, who are against any type of narrowing the massive skill gap and/or giving any advantages to new players. This mentality of "screw the newbs" is what causes Unreal Tournament games to die. Obviously the diehards are going to beat the living **** out of new comers, so we should be giving them anything we can to help them not rage-uninstall the game forever, that way the community can grow and thrive, not wither and die. The simple fix is to make it so you can disable them clientside to keep everyone happy. This is however a completely separate topic, so I'm going to leave it at that.
                              Except timers don't help new players. They help experienced players with good movement and weapons skills but lacking in strategic, tactical and control skills like timing and route running. The newbs still get wrecked with or without timers but with timers an average player those same newbs used to be able kill at least sometimes suddenly becomes a nearly unkillable item control machine and wrecks them even worse.

                              And calling me a diehard with a "screw the newbs" mentality. LOL

                              I'm usually the one arguing with the diehards, elitists and self proclaimed "pros" pressing for every possible advantage they can dream up... Sticking up for the newbs, casual and occasional players who really aren't represented here at all.

                              Client side disabling is not sufficient, there must be a server side option so you can have fair matches between evenly matched players/teams without timers on either side. That way players can choose if they want to play with timers or not without automatically putting themselves at a disadvantage by doing so. If you want timers play on servers with them on, if you don't want timers play on servers with them off.
                              Last edited by MoxNix; 10-25-2015, 05:24 AM.

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