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Replace hitscan with extremely fast small projectiles

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    #61
    Might be good for some weapons, but probably not for the sniper and shock.
    also known as Humphro

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      #62
      Small tweaking, not full matching.

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        #63
        The problem with UT and hitscan is simply because the game has too many histcan weapons and they have too good ROF and damage.

        In 99, the Sniper Rifle shoots too fast, but at the same time the Shock Rifle doesn't favor it's hitscan usage much because it's ROF is slower so there's no tapping, and because the Shock Core is fast, making long ranged combos easier.

        In 2K4, the LG is balanced as a high damage but low ROF weapon, but the Shock Rifle fills the ROF gaps of the weapon and is preferable to be used for hitscan over combo at long range (unless it's a predicted combo) because the core is slower and the target will have plenty of time to dodge it. It's also a good medium range weapon with the slower Core, as combos can be used closer, which makes it basically the most important weapon to have.

        In UT3 the Sniper is balanced again, it's also weaker than the LG due to not being able to chain targets, and there's the Helmet too. The Shock Rifle also shots fast and allows tapping, so it remains a very good long range hitscan weapon. The Shock Core starts slow and then accelerates, so the combos remain usable at short range, and becomes a bit better a long range, but become harder to hit at medium range, where the Core's speed is not constant.

        It would have to be tested, but I believe the UT3 Sniper or the UT2kX LG, combined with the UT99 Shock Rifle ROF and Core speed (and size) would be a good step into reducing the hitscan dominance of the game in situations where it mostly shouldn't be the best way to play.
        Last edited by luauDesign; 05-20-2014, 05:37 AM.
        DM-1on1-Deck8 | DM-1on1-BirdCage | DM-Complexo (GoldenEye Redesign) | DM-ShootThemMalcomsGood | DM-1on1-Toxicity

        Designer at Candango Games. Check my Gamasutra Blog.

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          #64
          Hitscan is an integral part of the gameplay of the UT series. Learning movement patterns to minimise it's impact on you while being able to still lock down a target is a huge part of the game play. I can't help but feel adding travel time on the projectiles, even if it's the tiniest fraction of time, would merely make things feel broken.

          If it was something that wasn't too difficult to implement, I'd be happy to try both and be proved wrong, however I think it'd be a poor use of time to develop projectiles for hitscan weapons.

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            #65
            Originally posted by utMental View Post
            This is "Unreal" tournament with lasers and lightning. They should hit instantly. Guessing where to aim is not going to be fun at all.
            ^This.
            Originally posted by WarrenM View Post
            Bear in mind, that there are networking concerns with that sort of thing. A room full of players spraying bullets is going to be ... heavy.
            ^^And this.
            Originally posted by simonc021 View Post
            Learning movement patterns to minimise it's impact on you while being able to still lock down a target is a huge part of the game play.
            ^^^And, finally, this. I think most of the Unreal hitscan'n'movement meta had been explained here. Clean and sharp.

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              #66
              Originally posted by Mysterial View Post
              I would like to do the sniper rifle this way for balance reasons, but I don't see any reason why it needs to be global. Case by case IMO.
              By doing that you will make the game unplayable for a lot of people and were back to square one. Unless were talking about a homing bullet that comes out afterwards which could hit a wall or object if target too far away.

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                #67
                Unplayable? lol
                Originally posted by Mysterial
                An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                  Unplayable? lol
                  Yes, unplayable.
                  If DOTA2 and LoL can be played well at 200ms why shouldn't Unreal Tournament? Game needs to be playable internationally unlike UT3 otherwise you gonna have a lot of dead servers because of a lack players in that region.
                  I'm not saying someone with 200ms compete should be able to equally compete with someone with 50ms on a reaction basis, but the weapon functionality should be roughly the same. This means no artificial leading of hit-scan weapons where you can't really even see the bullet traveling.

                  Also Tribes Ascend tried it, how is the playerbase looking in that game?

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                    #69
                    Ascend had hit scan weapons, and it was their ping compensation that destroyed that game at high latency.

                    Hit scan is artificial. Not leading targets. Leading targets is natural.

                    I'd rather go outside than play this game over a 60ms ping. I see no reason to detriment the game over 200ms pings in this broad band dominated day and age.
                    Originally posted by Mysterial
                    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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