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Enforcer is OP in TDM

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  • replied
    That statistical analysis is very poor.

    There is no direct link between the Enforcer being overpowered and the statistics that are shown here.

    If anything it shows poor coding, poor level design and poor server management.

    • - Players spawn by default with an enforcer (Time with Enforcer Equipped > any other pickup)
    • - too many people are playing a DM map (e.g 10 people on a recommended 1v1 map)
    • - Weapons are not correctly laid out and spawning is an issue (spawn near where you die, same spawn 5 times in a row by the bio-rifle etc, too much activity in one map area)


    As for every other comment; it seems the topic has shifted from statistical analysis to personal thoughts about the enforcer in general.
    Last edited by TKBS; 02-29-2016, 03:10 PM.

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  • replied
    Enforcer needs to have perfect precision, inflict weak damage (6-8 bodyshots to kill) and let players inflict headshots (3-4 headshots to kill). With perfect accuracy, the Enforcer would feel much more satisfying to use even if it's weak. And headshot damage multiplier would help balance the weapon, make it one of the hardest weapons to master, but make it also extremely rewarding for those who can use it and land those headshots frequently enough.

    @MonsOlympus @Wail @Cunni
    Last edited by 3Dmatic; 02-29-2016, 02:24 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RøOk!e View Post
    Enforcer is completely retarded in Duel, not only TDM.
    Definitelly, I would like to share funny/sad video which presents how much op is this weapon.
    Two high skilled EU players, I wanna emphasize, that one of those prefer to use enforcer than shock primary (he changed it while fight).

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  • replied
    Enforcer is completely retarded in Duel, not only TDM.

    It does way too much damage for a starter weapon and the rate of fire is too quick. One or the other has to be lowered. There is significant danger in dying in Duel after killing someone even if you're at 100 health, the damage and rate of fire are so high that if you're not careful you can get obliterated very quickly off a spawn.

    In regards to TDM, I had a teammate for many scrims that wouldn't even bother getting a weapon on Temple or Chill, he'd run around chasing people and just Enforcer them to death. What was the outcome you ask? He'd be near the top in kills and have a ton of deaths, the fact he can have near the highest kills just with a STARTING WEAPON is absurd and this is versus the best NA players in TDM at the time.

    The real challenge we have with this game is veterans are able to abuse the shiz out of OP weapons where as beginners and moderate players don't know or have the experience to do the same. Until you've been mowed down consistently by an Enforcer or barraged by spam rockets 20 feet from you, you may think things are fine and dandy.
    Last edited by RøOk!e; 02-21-2016, 09:27 PM.

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  • replied
    Enforcer is a gun, guns are inaccurate on long distances so dmg should stay as it is, maybe nerf range accuracy(maybe), if it is indeed too strong. I personally think it's fine!

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  • replied
    good post rage. also the better players are more dmg is dealt by enforcer overall.

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  • replied
    First of all, enforcer is NOT the weapon intended to get kills. It's weapon to DEFEND yourself if you are lucky Exaggerated a bit, but this is how it should works in general.

    I have no idea how it works in DM, but in TDM / duel it's just frustratingly too strong. Theoretically in DM and CTF shouldn't be used a lot, because those modes are played with weaponstay on. That means there will be a lot less frustrating situations caused by enforcer.
    You wrote that 5 shots is just right, in my opinion its definitelly not. As I said 14dmg enforcer was tested in ut3 by few years. Anyway, your 5 enforcer shots = 3x shock primary and 2x sniper. Both have a way longer time to shot.

    Time to kill 100hp guy (less = better):

    Enforcer: 1,3
    Sniper: 1,3
    Shock: 1,4

    Time to kill 85hp guy (less = better):

    Enforcer: 1s
    Sniper 1,3
    Shock: 1,4

    Time to kill 250hp guy (less = better):

    Enforcer: 3,6
    Sniper: 3,9
    Shock: 4,2

    1,3 second to kill 100hp guy by start weapon!? It's ridiculous. It's probably faster than 2 shots from rl / flak. You missed one shot? Add 1,3s for sniper / 0,7 for shock / 0,333 for enforcer. There are less consequences for missed shot if you are using enforcer. Anyway it's not really hard to hit 4-5 shots in a row with full RoF.
    Last edited by rAge.; 02-14-2016, 07:07 AM.

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  • replied
    It's a difficult one... when I'm playing these DM servers and I respawn with the enforcer, hit 4 times and then die I find it a bit frustrating - so close! It's a regular occurrence and I do feel like I usually get 3 hits in, but most kills are from when a player is already damaged.

    How do you really balance it... the enforcer shouldn't be so weak that you choose to use the impact hammer. What you're suggesting is 8 shots to kill someone with starting health and that's if you don't miss.

    I think that's a bit too many. I think 5 shots is just right, but if there was a tweak I would reduce the distance of the shots. If you could only fire at a relatively close range it would still allow a player to fight back against any weapon with great shooting, but not result is dying from enforcers half way across the map.

    I do find that I will sometimes switch from rockets or flak to enforcer when someone is at a distance and I think the opponent is low on health don't have any other instant hit shot.

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  • replied
    OK let's summarize my thoughts about enforcer:



    Enforcer is a clearly defensive weapon, which should be used to tries to scare off the enemy (without bigger chances to kill him if he is 100hp or above). As a start weapon it shouldn't be used to aggressive play. Already enf has the biggest DPS from hitscan weapons, insanely high as start weapon. It caused, that enforcer is efficient in aggressive play, and attacks on fresh spawned guys gives too much risk for attackers. Theoretically it has dispersion, but in fact, first 2-3 shots are accurate enough even on long distance, in close it doesn't matter. Currently it's far easier to hit than xx years ago (pings, connections quality), that's why I don't understand why enforcer stayed almost as strong as in ut99 (yes, in these years enforcer in ut99 is problem too). We had already op enforcer in ut3 (the same level imo), community helped themselves by doing mutator "nerforcer" which nerfed rof and damage to 14. Every tourney was played with this mutator in rules - that clearly shows opinion of ut3 community.

    My proposition:
    • 14 damage, the same RoF (DPS = 42)
    • every shot is accurate
    • more ammo
    Attached Files

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  • replied
    80% of the weapons are totally out of place and epic doesnt see it.

    the scaling fits pretty well, but with those instant-kill weaps its just boring as hell.

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  • replied
    Yes, I think this is the cause. Anyway I like the scale, even with bigger hitboxes. Prefer to change weapons instead of changing scale to previous one. Enforcer was op previously anyway

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  • replied
    Originally posted by rAge. View Post
    In the current build, enforcer has become even more powerful. :/
    Due to increased player size or something else ?

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  • replied
    In the current build, enforcer has become even more powerful. :/
    Last edited by rAge.; 02-09-2016, 04:37 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Gurkburken View Post
    Is there a place where I can read more on that "main rule of tdm"?
    (I didn't know there were any more rules than "kill the opponents more than they kill you"-rule.)
    If those main rules are being violated then it absolutely would make sense changing the weaps so that the rules are not broken anymore. On the other hand, if basically the only rule is to be the team with most frags in the end.... then I can't really see the problem. It's not like the servers are full of people ignoring the other weaps, just running around with enforcers because of it's OP'ness.
    Without wanting to sound condescending, I take it you never played ut3 at a competitive level to appreciate how game breaking an OP enforcer can be?

    The UT4 enforcer isn't quite at that level but an OP spawn weapon is something that needs to be avoided.
    Last edited by w)v; 01-11-2016, 05:32 AM.

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  • replied
    Is there a place where I can read more on that "main rule of tdm"?
    (I didn't know there were any more rules than "kill the opponents more than they kill you"-rule.)
    If those main rules are being violated then it absolutely would make sense changing the weaps so that the rules are not broken anymore. On the other hand, if basically the only rule is to be the team with most frags in the end.... then I can't really see the problem. It's not like the servers are full of people ignoring the other weaps, just running around with enforcers because of it's OP'ness.

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