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    #46
    Originally posted by forward View Post
    It's a bit pathetic to start about how pro you are and that rockets are for the noob scene.
    UT has never really been a pro scene to begin with.
    UT99 in terms of weapon balance was a joke. Most duels where all about 1 way overpowered weapon "the shock".
    Is that what you want again?

    The 3 rocket charging should be replaced with grenades only. But imo there is not much wrong with how primary rox fire in the current build.
    I was not talking about FLAK alt btw, This probably should be nerfed a bit.
    Although I agree with Sulaco, learn to play how it is for the most part.

    Wait where did I say the word "pro" or even talk about my skill? Are you ok?

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      #47
      Originally posted by Sulaco View Post
      I hope the developers are aware the most of these comments coming from pure frustration. EPIC let things sink as it should be.
      Most players dont wanna learn things, they dont wanna die (dying in an arena fps? oh lord, what a blasphemy), but i guess it's easier to whine all over the forums.
      My point is, wait a few weeks, think things thru, try to improve what is wrong with your game, and then comment on the forums. I read way too much nonsense on this topic to specify everything, so just take a chillpill. No offense or anything. The wep. balance not nearly as bad as some of you describe here, and ive got a feeling whatever changes gonna happen some of you would come back to complain.
      The bottomline is, try to improve yourself instead blaming the game.
      Top-LAL. What does weapon balance have to do with individual play-style? The bottom line is that it's horrid right now, and is highly favorable towards spam rather than skill. Watch new players playing the game. They're all using the same weapons & techniques, i.e. spamming link primary, stinger primary, & rockets (among a few other things, but those are the top 3 that come to mind). All weapons should be on even playing fields with one another. When you see new players all abusing the same weapons, you know said weapons are overpowered.
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        #48
        Originally posted by biggamer21 View Post
        How can you learn to play to avoid unavoidable projectiles

        Would you also say weapon balance in quake is a joke, since primarily people run around with the RL?
        Unavoidable? Rockets!? dude learn to move
        I would say quake's weapon balance is very good.
        close range: "rockets, shotgun, plasma"
        medium range: "LG, rockets, plasma"
        long range: "rail"

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          #49
          It is not black or white guys. We are talking about slight changes that could change the gameplay and make the game less spammy, more fun. That's the goal right ?

          100 damage for a direct hit is correct. It should be rewarded.

          The problem is that direct hit in close combat are too frequent due to the rocket speed. Maybe a reduction of 5%/10% could be fine. Not more or it would give too much room to hitscan weapons.
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            #50
            Originally posted by Cunni View Post
            It is not black or white guys. We are talking about slight changes that could change the gameplay and make the game less spammy, more fun. That's the goal right ?

            100 damage for a direct hit is correct. It should be rewarded.

            The problem is that direct hit in close combat are too frequent due to the rocket speed. Maybe a reduction of 5%/10% could be fine. Not more or it would give too much room to hitscan weapons.
            I agree the game should not be "spammy" but 5% is a lot Cunni.
            Yesterday I had a match where my opp. fired 2 rockets directly at me from close range and I was able to dodge both with a simple step to the right.
            For me these kind of situations display that rockets are not too fast at all.
            I'll check if I can post this clip somehow, an image says more than words after all.


            And I agree 100 damage for a direct hit is correct, air-rockets are the best
            Last edited by forward; 01-19-2016, 09:20 AM.

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              #51
              Howdy.

              It seems that I see a wise kid.
              I wanna say that I agree with all statements. It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

              It's really hard for ******* rangers (skillful players) to play that game nowadays 'cos of current weapon balance. Skill-based guns like shock rifle aren't so balanced as they was before in my days (UT99) or in my grandson's days (UT2004).
              My grandson told me that u say the truth - there're lots of hungry kids who jump on shock cores and eat 'em like beefstakes. Sad enough to bring a tear to a glass eye. By the way, talkin' 'bout ammo, do you remember intro video from quake 3? Sergeant ran out of ammo and hided behind the column. It's all about current state of shock rifle. The combos decreases the ammo with a light-speed, that's sad.

              That minigun thing - **** that's bad. It's like the d-day machine. Have you seen those kids who take DD and Berserk with minigun? They're friendly as a bramble bush.

              That in Unreal Tournament son, not a barbie game. The real gentleman will invite a girl to dance but not kill her with a rocket-spam.

              I also like the idea to make a link-gun more like q3's shaft. That's close enough for government work.

              Oh, and about flak-cannon. Where's the splash-damage? It was good to kill player with a secondary-spam in UT2004 but the damage of that fire-mode wasn't so powerful in comparison with a rocket-spam, so that's why flak-spam was a skill-required thing. I've tried the last build of UT4 with bots and I gotta say that even in UT99 flak cannon's splash-damage was higher than in this UT.

              I'm not tryin' to tell you all to make a new UT2004 or UT99. The UT3's goal was to make a mix between UT99 and UT2004 but it's failed (I'm writin' that without fear of favor, because that's quite obvious), so please, if you're trying to make a new mix between two classical games - be very accurate and reasonable. Yes it's hard for a new players to fight against shock-rifle players, or other skillful players, but for god's sake, don't make the weapon-balance so awful.

              And remember: You better throw a sop to the dogs.
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                #52
                I love the shock rifle and the amazing combo is one of the best ways to kill your opponent.
                However, apart from some of the best UT players who fly around the map and still hit most shockballs, there are many players out there who depend highly on the stand-still-combo (players with gold ratings).
                Which does not require any skill whatsover except patience and the ability to camp well.
                I hope you are not refering to these kind of playing styles when talking about "skilled shock-rifle players".

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                  #53
                  The distance in front of the player which certain weapons are fired is quite far. This is pretty noticable with flak and rockets so it's not just the speed of some weapons which can be lowered, pulling this back will make a good difference too

                  I've been going through the weapons in the editor, some like Shock are easy to edit/fix but others are a bit trickier

                  Still i think that i can balance them all after a decent amount of playtesting

                  The main issue is actually the movement and character/projectile size, the weapons can't be balanced correctly and still be fun to use unless these two are sorted out

                  Luckily Stolid's already done a good job with his movement mutator, it needs tweaking to work better with UT4's mechanics like wall dodging but it's still much better than vanilla an takes a lot of the clumsy movement out of the game

                  The player size doesn't seem hard to fix either since i think it's just a matter of changing the capsule/player size and lowering the camera height

                  Given some of the design desicions Epic have made with the movement/scale and the weapons i don't think they'll be able to sort it all out. The whole system needs a load of small tweaks and adjustments to fix things and the choices they have made in many areas are at odds with what needs to be done to fix things

                  Character size is the best example, the player model is clearly too big and this has a knock on effect to the rest of the game. Once you've re-scaled the player and tested it this is blatantly obvious and has been since day one, but we still have the same problem

                  If any effort is to be made to balance out the game it'll need to be community driven, we'll need to go and make this ourselves and stop pesting Epic and fighting tooth and nail for the odd small tweak

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Something is clearly wrong with rockets.

                    Link pull is great. Maybe it shouldn't damage people while you're pulling?
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                      #55
                      Originally posted by cafe
                      At this point, I might just be happy with an ROF reduction on the rockets and maybe a slight speed decrease.

                      Forward, you need to understand that, unlike quake, rockets in this game have ping compensation. Meaning that the "dodgeability" of rockets depends on how high the other players ping is. If they have 120 ping, or even 50-80, the rocket has already traveled for (your ping + their ping)/2. With fast rockets that really makes a huge difference.

                      Also, I think rocket grenades should not be capable of 100 damage. They are pure spam and random luck with them should not be so heavily rewarded. Unlike the rockets, the charged grenades seem to fire much more closely together.
                      If we are going to have ping compensation on projectile weapons, we need to limit the lag comp. around 60 max compensated ping would do the job for projectiles, while keeping the same (160) for hitscan weapons. It's almost impossible to dodge rockets in some situations.

                      Originally posted by fb.pb View Post
                      Something is clearly wrong with rockets.

                      Link pull is great. Maybe it shouldn't damage people while you're pulling?
                      I've never been a fan of link pull, I've always thought it was some noob mechanic. But this is a great idea.
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                        #56
                        after so many complaints i gave weapons a bit closer look and apparently duel which i have been ignoring due to poor weapon play.. is terrificly different from ctf. due to the map design nature it is all rockets and sniper sparing all the way, i can see where this many complaints about sniper rifle rof and dmg and rox speed was coming from, close combat is a mess, i think a sniper rifle rof nerf will not be that bad and perhaps maybe shock prim now can play a part in the game for gods sake, as pb said there is something wrong with rox maybe it is netcode issue too it is really hard to handle in duel, unlike ctf where it is pretty managable. Maybe shock prim after all needs more push back power eh? i mean as long as a god **** stinger has it lol

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                          #57
                          weapons that need to be changed are for sure:
                          1. flak
                          2. rockets a bit
                          3. link pull
                          flak is just big game changer now

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by nvz View Post
                            I've never been a fan of link pull, I've always thought it was some noob mechanic. But this is a great idea.
                            I have no problem with the link pull or any aspect of the link secondary, but the link primary is spam trash. It does like 160 damage per second, or something ridiculous. Hate it.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by cafe
                              At this point, I might just be happy with an ROF reduction on the rockets and maybe a slight speed decrease.

                              Forward, you need to understand that, unlike quake, rockets in this game have ping compensation. Meaning that the "dodgeability" of rockets depends on how high the other players ping is. If they have 120 ping, or even 50-80, the rocket has already traveled for (your ping + their ping)/2. With fast rockets that really makes a huge difference.

                              Also, I think rocket grenades should not be capable of 100 damage. They are pure spam and random luck with them should not be so heavily rewarded. Unlike the rockets, the charged grenades seem to fire much more closely together.
                              I agree that the rockets need to be slowed down. They're heavily abused now and ping compensation makes it much worse since you have less time to react to already fast rockets. They're borderline hitscan at close-medium close range. 75% speed decrease and like 5% splash increase seems like a good starting point.

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by legionz View Post
                                I agree that the rockets need to be slowed down. They're heavily abused now and ping compensation makes it much worse since you have less time to react to already fast rockets. They're borderline hitscan at close-medium close range. 75% speed decrease and like 5% splash increase seems like a good starting point.
                                75% speed decrease hahaha, funny man
                                Here is a small clip which demonstrates that rockets are not too fast.
                                They are absolutely NOT unavoidable projectiles as some here suggest.

                                However, I don't know what happens when ping compensation really kicks in.
                                But if this is causing the issue than they should fix this instead of projectile speed.


                                Last edited by forward; 01-21-2016, 05:18 PM.

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