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Weapon Balance ideas

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  • replied
    headshots are headshot mybe like in UT99

    sick of so many times my bullets clips the tops of the skull at medium to close range player 90% of the time (HOW ****ING HIGH DO I NEED FOR IT TO BE A HEADSHOT)

    BTW the tool pulls out the link gun cause they are a puss and just walk through you, after your first headshot still leave them with a sheild belt, even though you got a headshot but its not a headshot because your opponent was moving diagonally

    want to avoid headshots?, never move in one direction or standstill, or get caught in dodge whilst not holding down a movement key, or move through the air without pressing diagonal movement keys

    meanwhile spam your AOE trash that can damage you even though you moved

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  • replied
    I played a few enjoyable PUGs tonight, but for the first time I started thinking that flak > rockets for attacking. Rockets were always good for charging up and getting instant kills on opponents as, in CTF, you usually need to kill a couple of players to get the flag out of the base... but it was clear that flak was far more effective, just because you don't have to be *that* accurate in close-ish range & rockets need direct hits to really make a difference.

    I think, like RPG says, it needs the center shard removing and then also reducing the spread slightly so that you have to be more accurate. It feels like you only need to hit with half the shards, which are quite well spread out, at the moment.

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  • replied
    It'd still be too easy to hit, damage would have to be nerfed to a very low level

    Plus having things this random takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Take shock for example, it's still a death machine but there's little fun in just popping out 3-4 shots in a row against people who are easy to hit and seeing a huge explosion which is no where near as effective as it looks

    Nerfing the other guns would make the game less playable but not nearly as fun

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  • replied
    At this point I'd just try making the damage values reasonable.

    Remove center shard for 144 dmg maximum, tweak the damage fall slightly bit so it doesn't make that much damage at medium->longrange but perhaps removing center shard will be enough of a dmg tweak possibly so I'd just start with that. 2ndary dmg doing 160 on direct hit is also too much, should be 120, can't say about splash damage but it feels somewhat on the "subtle" side of how useful the mechanic really is, it doesn't really often contribute and it's mostly direct hits so possibly the radius and how the shards bounces from the collision point could possibly be tweaked in some way to make the splash effect more of a viable mechanic in your strategy arsenal. For me the mechanic feels more of a tripbomb mechanic that could be having its shards more projected or keeping the momentum of the direction the shell was fired into, should still be a bit random in what direction exactly the shards go but it should go towards the direction it's fired, right now it can go in quite a bit various directions IMO making it fairly random/luck based.
    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 01-22-2016, 09:30 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
    Fyi, 8 shards with 18 dmg each and no centre shard would do 144 damage on flak primary. (Sounds pretty good to me)
    Flak needs a lot of tweaking imho, the speed can be reduced by 10% and a slight tweak to the damage falloff for starts

    There are 9 shards currently and the spread is quite large/hit radius of either the shards or of the player hitbox is pretty big too so they clip the player really easily

    The flak ball has a pretty high velocity, lowering the end velocity but keeping the starting velocity high keeps it fast but gives it a steeper(UT1 type) arc which fits in more with close game play

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  • replied
    UT1's sniper is practically rapid fire death compared to any other in the series, but it's not a serious balance issue unless you have guys with top level aim

    Shock and sniper in particular have to be nerfed into the floor with the scale and movement UT4 uses

    I edited the sniper in EU4 with the same rate of fire as UT1 and it's a complete joke, it still even feels like there's a slight firing delay on the weapon and it's just ridiculously OP

    There's a number of things which contribute to this, ideally if i can adjust things enough to get a UT1 type sniper which doesn't obliterate the game's balance then i'll be happy

    -.-

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  • replied
    Fyi, 8 shards with 18 dmg each and no centre shard would do 144 damage on flak primary. (Sounds pretty good to me)

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
    Yeah with current splash damage 25% decrease is too much, I'd say try some acceleration on the rockets - have them propelled out of the RL as grenades at a medium velocity, and then activate the thrusters at which point they instantly accelerate to somewhere around their current speed. This would make it possible to dodge them up close but still allow long range prediction shots to be useful. And also make the collision a single point of course.

    As for Flak I'm rather against making the spread any smaller, Wail's Flak has a small spread and I just don't think it fits the game. In 2k4 it worked because of the dodge jump but in UT4 people will again just strafe against Flak instead of dodging, since that would be more effective to avoid a tight spread. I'd say the spread should be slightly increased (I think it will be in the next build) and the damage should be HEAVILY reduced, along with very aggressive falloff. It should do like 120 damage max point blank, and like 40 damage across the Flak pit on Chill. Then, the RoF should be increased by 20-30% to emphasize quickness in aiming, which is IMO what Flak is all about.
    this will not work.... i swear to god stop trying to nerf guns functionality just dmg, i do not find flak any effective at range at all it does not need further nerfs, it's just point blank dmg is a bit too much i mean 150 could be dealt with but this does some i dno 250 or something. dmg fall off does not need any radical changes maybe slight decreasing, range shall be kept.

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  • replied
    Yeah with current splash damage 25% decrease is too much, I'd say try some acceleration on the rockets - have them propelled out of the RL as grenades at a medium velocity, and then activate the thrusters at which point they instantly accelerate to somewhere around their current speed. This would make it possible to dodge them up close but still allow long range prediction shots to be useful. And also make the collision a single point of course.

    As for Flak I'm rather against making the spread any smaller, Wail's Flak has a small spread and I just don't think it fits the game. In 2k4 it worked because of the dodge jump but in UT4 people will again just strafe against Flak instead of dodging, since that would be more effective to avoid a tight spread. I'd say the spread should be slightly increased (I think it will be in the next build) and the damage should be HEAVILY reduced, along with very aggressive falloff. It should do like 120 damage max point blank, and like 40 damage across the Flak pit on Chill. Then, the RoF should be increased by 20-30% to emphasize quickness in aiming, which is IMO what Flak is all about.

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  • replied
    I think it's pretty clear he meant 25% reduction for 75% of current speed lol. Still not sure about it tho, might still be a bit much. I think reducing collision cylinder would also increase dodge-ability of rockets and would rather test that before a speed decrease.

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  • replied
    75% is like: Dude I fire this rocket and then you'll die.
    Ok, let me first go take a ****, get me some cafe and put my clothes in the washing machine, then dry, sort and hang them, so I will be back just in time to dodge it

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  • replied
    25% is excessive for rocket speed reduction. Let's start with 5%-10%.

    Flak primary primary spread to be reduced to reward accuracy but with a increased falling effect (so that prim fire is weak at mid-long distance)

    Link pull is usefull to chase. But too powerful and really annoying in the current version.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by forward View Post
    75% speed decrease hahaha
    i died :d lets just throw rockets out of the window

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  • replied
    Originally posted by legionz View Post
    I agree that the rockets need to be slowed down. They're heavily abused now and ping compensation makes it much worse since you have less time to react to already fast rockets. They're borderline hitscan at close-medium close range. 75% speed decrease and like 5% splash increase seems like a good starting point.
    75% speed decrease hahaha, funny man
    Here is a small clip which demonstrates that rockets are not too fast.
    They are absolutely NOT unavoidable projectiles as some here suggest.

    However, I don't know what happens when ping compensation really kicks in.
    But if this is causing the issue than they should fix this instead of projectile speed.


    Last edited by forward; 01-21-2016, 05:18 PM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by cafe
    At this point, I might just be happy with an ROF reduction on the rockets and maybe a slight speed decrease.

    Forward, you need to understand that, unlike quake, rockets in this game have ping compensation. Meaning that the "dodgeability" of rockets depends on how high the other players ping is. If they have 120 ping, or even 50-80, the rocket has already traveled for (your ping + their ping)/2. With fast rockets that really makes a huge difference.

    Also, I think rocket grenades should not be capable of 100 damage. They are pure spam and random luck with them should not be so heavily rewarded. Unlike the rockets, the charged grenades seem to fire much more closely together.
    I agree that the rockets need to be slowed down. They're heavily abused now and ping compensation makes it much worse since you have less time to react to already fast rockets. They're borderline hitscan at close-medium close range. 75% speed decrease and like 5% splash increase seems like a good starting point.

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