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Rocket Launcher: An idea of a different type of nerf

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    Rocket Launcher: An idea of a different type of nerf

    Hi all,

    So yes there has been a lot of complaints about the RL's damage and massive spread and it's good to see Epic responding and making changes, however I've felt that now the RL has been really reduced to a weapon for close quaters combat and perhaps prediction as well. What does everyone think that if we were to decrease direct hit damage slightly, decrease splash damage a good amount and speed up the rockets? Therefore rewarding a skillful required direct hit and making it a viable weapon as it always has been for CQC and medium distance combat. In essence, the UT2k4 RL and even the Quake Live RL (also the Primeweapon RL) are great examples of what I'm talking about, they have decreased damage all round so it can't be abused when spammed, however it is fast and damaging enough to be rewarding for a direct hit. Thoughts?

    #2
    I think it's generally a good idea to have fast and weaker rockets than slow strong ones. I get the feeling it's more fun to play with faster projectiles.
    Then again I must admit, I'm okay with the current RL. It seems like a good interim solution until weapon balance finally get's some major attention.

    Comment


      #3
      Yes, I agree. Increase speed and decrease damage/splash.
      The current rockets are being abused in close range while being to weak in mid.
      It's also a lot more fun with a faster rocket.

      Comment


        #4
        I am 100% with you on this, ut2 style, not ut3.
        Not sure about splash damage, with faster rockets, you have less excuse of missing, I'd like to see weaker+faster rockets with current splash range before I give any finalised opinions though

        Wail has come close to what I would like for the final version, but his splash radius is a bit low

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          #5
          Splash is too big even with current rockets speed. We could try faster rl only with massive reduced splash - like 50%, 90dmg and point collision.

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            #6
            I'd rather keep 100 damage for a direct hit. Punchier rockets could be nice but the collision of the rocket itself should be tiny to compensate making direct hits harder.
            :|

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              #7
              I agree. Rockets now are only viable in the prediction / close range way.

              You can't use it anymore in mid range, and they aren't fun anymore.

              Reduce splash damage, keep 100 damage for a direct Hit, maybe increase recharge rate of trirox.
              Imho, UT3 rockets were a good choice (between Quake's rocket and ut99 ones)

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                #8
                Disagree. Fast rockets don't work in UT unless there is dodge jump (2k4). I'm for slower rockets with bigger splash damage and acceleration so that they are still useful in medium range. But the current rockets are pretty much perfect at mid range I'd say, and still way too powerful in close range.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                  Disagree. Fast rockets don't work in UT unless there is dodge jump (2k4). I'm for slower rockets with bigger splash damage and acceleration so that they are still useful in medium range. But the current rockets are pretty much perfect at mid range I'd say, and still way too powerful in close range.
                  I agree. I'd try acceleration next and keeping it at 100 dmg, making it very slightly slower at the start at very close range but after like 1 - 1.5 sec it already should speed up to roughly where it was before this nerf, possibly a bit faster. The acceleration shouldn't be made more noticeable than necessary though, the UT99 acceleration wasn't that much noticeable either, you notice it yes but it's nothing major and that's how I'd want it to be and I think slightly slower at start (think a character length or max two or so) and max speed about where it was or slightly faster than previous build with about 1 sec acceleration duration and the acceleration would barely even be noticeable but still help to balance out this close - midrange effectiveness balance in its needed way. The most kills recieved in this build is certainly rocket launcher especially in CTF, no doubt about it since there you end up close to each other more often and the close range combat with rockets feels quite cheap right now.


                  I think my preferred RL from where we are now would be adding acceleration as mentioned, and giving it like a tiny splash radius decrease (~10% or so) and make the rocket projectile single point collision.
                  Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 04-04-2016, 02:38 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                    Disagree. Fast rockets don't work in UT unless there is dodge jump (2k4). I'm for slower rockets with bigger splash damage and acceleration so that they are still useful in medium range. But the current rockets are pretty much perfect at mid range I'd say, and still way too powerful in close range.
                    Agree, but currently in coridors like on deck where 100 belt is, you are "doomed", dead! They need to fix size of projectile.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Well, I think you guys are overestimating how much of a difference point collision will make. For something like Link Primary it makes a noticeable difference because you are firing a lot of projectiles in a short time, but for rockets it barely has any effect on how easy direct hits are. Still, they should definitely HAVE point collision because there's no reason not to.. but that alone isn't going to be enough to make direct hits balanced.

                      In the Deck corridors I wouldn't say rockets are that powerful actually, you can just jump and wall dodge between the two walls and generally you can avoid the rocket. But yeah, it would be nice if the character hitbox was smaller only for rockets or something, not sure if it's possible to do but that would be the easiest way to make direct hits harder. Actually I guess you could do something like ignore collisions with pawns and then program the rocket to explode when it gets within a certain proximity of the character's center?
                      Last edited by Infiadux; 04-04-2016, 03:28 AM.

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                        #12
                        Hey guys, fast rockets will not work with ping compensation that well. This has been proven in past builds. I'd be okay with faster rockets if we shut off ping comp for projectiles but it's simply not going to work. The Rockets feel a lot better now and I can dodge them.
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                          #13
                          Point collision simply won't work with the current state of the engine / netcode. Too many false positives. This IS the single biggest and best thing you can do to create a better feel for the weapons, but you're going to create more dud shots as well. I've been backing this change off gradually every single UP version just because the game can't handle the behavior that was in past games. Maybe one day it will be able to, in which case we can go back.
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Wail View Post
                            Point collision simply won't work with the current state of the engine / netcode. Too many false positives. This IS the single biggest and best thing you can do to create a better feel for the weapons, but you're going to create more dud shots as well. I've been backing this change off gradually every single UP version just because the game can't handle the behavior that was in past games. Maybe one day it will be able to, in which case we can go back.
                            Really? I don't remember a single time I got an unregistered direct hit with the Trident.. I think I had a few Flak shots that went right through people, but so did I with Epic's Flak.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                              Really? I don't remember a single time I got an unregistered direct hit with the Trident.. I think I had a few Flak shots that went right through people, but so did I with Epic's Flak.
                              There's a lot of confounding factors (servers, netcode / network, general selectivity of 'perceived' change) but to me it seems like a real enough issue. Stepping it back has generally been perceived as a positive change.
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