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Goo Gun (Bio Rifle reincarnate)

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    [PROTOTYPE] Goo Gun (Bio Rifle reincarnate)

    Okay so Im working on something, I thought I could knock it out quickly but its taking some time due to the way Epic has coded weapons and projectiles but I wanted to get the ball rolling here because it would be such a shame for a great Bio Rifle mesh to go to waste because the core functionality isnt up to scratch.

    Do people think the Bio Rifle should change? Did the tertiary firemode change your perspectives on it? What do you consider staple features of the Bio Rifle that CANNOT be touched?

    These are questions Id like the community to answer for me, I know Im not happy with the Bio Prim and others arnt and the secondary hasnt really changed in all those years, it got the homing so Im wondering about peoples thought on that. Do people like the weapon, want to see it stay, go or change, skys the limit.

    Im working on this right now, its not set in stone and its not really my ideas but I'll lay out what I had in mind for everyone to critique, you might catch something before I make it.


    Primary Fire
    *Fires blobs of Goo which when in contact with a surface become like acid pools
    *You can build up these pools just as you would a glob and eventually see a more glob-like appearance
    *Pools fade and the damage they can deal is based on the size of the pool at the time
    *Pools damage over time if a person steps on them.

    Secondary Fire
    *Charge mode but instead of a big blob the weapon fires a stream of goo which will still kill an opponent if covered
    *The bigger Goo stream means you can make bigger pools

    The Pools themselves have an affinity for the oil on peoples skin like liquid oxygen so the pools will follow them and have a corrosive effect if it comes in contact with a player. The following radius is small, pools are reasonably fast but no where near the HK drones they are now.

    Obviously if the blobs (in the air) hit the player they will stick and corrode, damaging the player like usual so I did try to stick to the current functionality as much as possible.

    This does remove alot of the explosive aspect of the weapon but I feel as though the weapon has never really been highly regarded for its explosive nature, I like the tactics volatile projectiles can bring but Im not convinced of the Bio Rifles usefulness in the current lineup so Im exploring a different direction, one that more matches the Bio Rifle being made here.

    I dont want to see this weapon go, its been a staple but I dont think we cant continually sweep issues under the rug in a sea of fun and happiness, UT was never really a happy happy joy joy styled game and I do worry that its heading too far into that territory where it doesnt take itself seriously at all (my biggest gripe against Bulletstorm actually). I just want to hear what you guys think, what the community wants and where Epic wants to head, right now Im just not feeling much love for the Bio Rifle or Launcher past woo pretty models
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-11-2016, 02:23 AM.
    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

    #2
    I like the Bio rifle a lot. It's one of the thing that I always thought was unique to Unreal. And one of the most bizarre weapon you can find.

    But I indeed think that now the old concept is taking dust, and that it needs some new changes. However I want to keep it as much as possible as a Bio RIFLE, and not a Bio LAUNCHER.

    I'll be honest, I don't see what new your ideas really bring. It's almost the same functionnality as before, but with a pool instead of the blob, which will be in my opinion more annoying than before. You can already mine an area (especially flags), but at least destroy the blob, or they pop after someone step on it, but wiht a pool you'll just have no real counterplay and have to take damage. This is in no way fun.

    For the homing... I'm not sure I'm for it. Especially knowing that the effort needed isn't that high. The rocket for exemple need to stay on your target for a few second, and is destroyed against any obstacle. The goo just go as soon as you hit, and they're **** crazy... And I don't think UC2 homing glob was better.

    I think the Bio need to keep at least one mode focused on defensive gameplay, like it always had one (minefield), but need more offensive power. The big blob is deadly, but not as easy to use or efficient as some other weapons.

    Comment


      #3
      I can see where youre coming from but I sat back and ran some scenarios through my head, I think the difference is Ive moved the skill from the enforcer onto movement with the homing pools, obviously they will be slower so you can dodge them long enough until they fade. With how it is currently the enforcer becomes this super explosive weapon when around Bio, I like that counter play but I dont think the current Bio offers enough, its abit too specific to "pop the blob" rather than trying to use the weapon in more interesting ways.

      With pools they are attracted to the player but they dont kill them instantly, now I think from a fast paced shooter game perspective perhaps damage-over-time isnt the best option but I think it removes alot of randomness from the weapon and adds more skill.

      For instance with more of a stream secondary I can make it so people have to track fire similar to the linkgun, only for a short while but atm if you hit the super glob you hit, now if you hit that person still has a counter play you still have to get away incase they still have a loaded rocket up their sleeve. It removes abit of that one trick pony show that the Bio Rifle currently is.

      Now you might not see me mentioning the Bio Launcher much and thats because my personal opinion always was the Grenade Launcher deserved its own spot, so what this Goo Gun can also do is give the Bio Launcher room to mature. I do really like [MENTION=12687]Stolid[/MENTION]s bouncing goo idea and am trying to make it so pools slide abit and wouldnt mind exploring bouncing in combination to see if maybe we can get the best of both Goo and GES somehow.

      For the primary it is different in that the acid eats the player slowly and you dont have to be as accurate with the homing ability, its also better counter play for the person being attacked, less DPS doesnt actually make the mode less useful as it was never meant for straight offense, as you say Bio is abit more defense so the idea for primary is to spray and area with weak low damage pools which can join to each other making a big glob doing more damage and then attack the player as I think a damage multiplier for the size is the go.

      I looked at the code for the Bio projectile but its really hard to know whats going on, theres not alot exposed and most of it seems to work off the single BioStrength value which doesnt make it easy to balance. I do have some crappy sketches of pools through 5 different stages as they get bigger and thicker, and have gas effects too.

      Honestly Im not taking credit for any of this because I got it mostly from the forum and Epic

      https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtour...o-Rifle-Design

      I honestly think Goo'ba Gun is the way to go
      Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-12-2016, 09:16 AM.
      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post

        https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtour...o-Rifle-Design

        I honestly think Goo'ba Gun is the way to go
        Just saw Gooba's for the first time & I think that's the best Bio Rifle direction I've seen so far. Compact, yet menacing design sets it apart from other weps.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Milan_ View Post
          Just saw Gooba's for the first time & I think that's the best Bio Rifle direction I've seen so far. Compact, yet menacing design sets it apart from other weps.
          Yeah I wasnt suggesting this design is better just that I think Gooba did have the right direction for the weapon functionality in mind when he was doing his designs, Id be curious to see what he thinks of the current design being worked on
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

          Comment


            #6
            Well Gooba showed an interesting idea with the wall thing, and I honestly think that on one hand it would be fun, but on the other hand I was concerned about impairing movement as well and the different abuse that such a functionality could produce. Like totally blocking a door, or even worse, the flag (especially if someone's here to constantly spam). Or even accessing some part of the map that shouldn't.

            However when rereading this thread, I also remembered something (I was even surprised that no one mentioned it). I assume you already saw this :


            Or even this :


            Well maybe it could actually be the Bio secondary fire ? A smaller version of course. But since it was present before, and worked, then there's clearly room for it.
            Plus, I always thought the stasis field was goo instead of time-magic-tech-shenanigans.

            Comment


              #7
              Bingo you got it, I swear I remember seeing a picture of someone kinda stuck in goo, I was thinking since the DamageTypes support it for slowing a player based on the amount of goo so a bigger pool could get really sticky and hold you down till you break free. Damage over time was a balancing mechanism for this since having a form of lockdown and instant damage just doesnt seem fair to me, this makes the movement around goo alot more of a skill than previously which is perfect because its like a more offensive defensive weapon putting people on their back foot more.

              How globs are now they dont really intimidate me unless its a jumbo right in the face, I think thats problematic as the weapon was always kinda a joke, like people wouldnt even use it unless someone kicked it off. I want to see this weapon rise up abit and I think treating it more like Borderlands 2 corrosion is the way to go, the damage over time can still be shown with pockets of air like bubbles which explode causing the damage too. It just will be alittle different and if I could get that system from Borderlands I totally would, there is a metaball plugin for UE4 but I think I could do it with spheres and scaling based on the surface normal or something like that.

              Plenty of options here and Im not entirely committed to this because I know how many revisions the Bio has already undergone in both functionality and visuals, not just here but in UT/UC over the years too.
              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

              Comment


                #8
                Sowyyy, me mind iz sloooow !

                I think a complete lockdown would be way too much. It's already tricky to do movement impairment in game with quick reflexes like arcade FPS, a complete stop/stun is in my opinion to strong in this kind of environment. The stasis field seems like a good compromise to me, as it slows both players and projectiles, so the player trapped still have a chance but the attacker get an advantage, and it also somewhat serve like a wall/protection (stop hitscan projectiles).
                One additional touch that could be fun is to make the field explode/deal damage when shot with one special kind of attack. If the lightning gun was present it would have been the perfect candidate . When shot the field react, destroying it but also killing/dealing heavy damage to anybody in it.
                But since we don't have the lightning gun (yet), I suggest maybe to take the link gun. When you shoot with the secondary fire on the field, it deals damage over time (as long as you keep firing on it) in all opponent (maybe friendly ?) in the field. Eventually you can overload it and make it explode like I previously suggested.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well there are a few variables for adjusting how it affects the player, its a float for the amount of movement reduction and one for duration so I can make it soft and brief getting stronger towards a full pool. There is another reason for the pool, to keep the collision smaller so people can jump and dodge over it alittle easier but I do think at the larger pool sizes the gas should do some damage still if you dodge over it to make it a penalty.

                  A good side effect of all this back and forwards is people will start to feel the gun, not just in firing because its more organic than the others but in taking the damage, people will know I have this much vest, the damage from about that amount of Goo can take a total of X over time obviously its more instinctive than mathematical.

                  I definitely like the idea of dual weapon combos, the game needs more of those and more counter plays to make it interesting because it is that same aging weapon set. Im not against working on the Lighting Gun myself (I have it in my Phobos map) but I just dont have the time, Im even pushing it with this weapons because of the Mapcore contest, dying to get more releases out to people with gamemodes, muts and characters lol end of this year forsure (I hope).
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment

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