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    Rockets.

    If you're not using one in close or mid range, you are being silly!



    The damage is far too high, and the splash is far too big. (and IMO, the rockets are not quite visible enough either)

    I know that not all weapons should be balanced, and that RL should be objectively the best weapon, but it's just plain overpowered right now. I have to use one just to keep up, but it's so clunky and unrewarding that it's not fun to use at all. I know this isn't QL, but consider imitating the rockets in that game. They are perfect - very powerful, but not the only viable weapon and they're actually fun to play with.

    (imo)
    spam.doog

    #2
    Hehe. I didn't notice that at the end of the game.

    Rockets are powerful, but I think one of their main advantages is that they have great utility. I don't think any other weapon allows you to have the same mobility and potential speed of kill as the rocket launcher and that's why it will probably always been the most used weapon.

    It does, of course, have it's downsides. At very close range, you're likely to damage yourself (As I do often!) and the primary fire with it's delay and slow projectile can often be a wasted shot.

    As it stands, that primary makes me feel like I should ALWAYS start with a right click and charge the rockets. This isn't to get 2 or 3 rockets, but to allow you to control when the rocket is released, e.g. to time it at the end of an opponents dodge or as they're about to land, pass a wall etc. Holding on for that "opportune" moment can lead the opponent to feel it can be a very spammy weapon as you end up not firing until 2-3 rockets are loaded. I then use the primary as a finisher (or 3 or 4 finishers as sometimes occurs..!)

    I'd like them to tweak the primary so that that it's an instant fire on left click. Also, the damage is so unpredictable it needs some tweaking on how the damage differs from the centre of the splash to the edge of the splash.
    Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

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      #3
      Damage seems to be okay, atleast direct damage. The radius is too big, I agree. I really hate it how alt fire works. Basically you have people running around charging rockets all the time and the problem is wherever you point the cursor, that's where the rocket will go. They should have some pattern like in previous versions of UT.

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        #4
        Yeah, the damage being unpredictable is one my biggest problems with it, for sure. Sometimes I can blast someone at point blank and be absolutely fine, at other times I'll get destroyed in a single hit from a rocket to the ground.

        I really should've elaborated more in the first post, but I feel that rockets shouldn't do 100 damage in their current state (except for air rockets maybe?), and the explosion itself shouldn't reach so far (or at least, do less damage at the edge of the radius). I'm not entirely sure of the best way to fix this though

        (That RL delay bothers me too. Thanks for the tip! Never thought of that )

        Edit: I also haven't considered gamemodes like showdown as much, where everyone has armor. Hmm...
        Last edited by Cozzzy; 06-02-2016, 08:49 AM.
        spam.doog

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          #5
          Originally posted by Smurgl View Post

          I'd like them to tweak the primary so that that it's an instant fire on left click.
          Did'nt the they already tweak it to add this delay in first place ?

          Few builds ago it used to be an insta fire on release.....meanwhile ppl cried on RL being too powerful and then comes this nerf.

          About damage, as you said from one rocket to an other it's a whole lottery.

          If i had the RL on the final scoreboard (i'm on blue team with a personal message to Epic in my nick) that was only because i had the flag to carry more than expected..
          Last edited by MystiK`; 06-04-2016, 06:00 AM.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Cozzzy View Post
            I know this isn't QL, but consider imitating the rockets in that game. They are perfect - very powerful, but not the only viable weapon and they're actually fun to play with.

            (imo)
            No, just no. QL has even worse rockets than UT4, just go into any server and all you see are noobs spamming rockets everywhere. They are faster, have bigger splash, and fire more often than UT4 rockets. The only reason they don't totally dominate the game is that the other guns are pretty OP too, at least if you have good aim.

            As for UT4 rockets, where are you guys getting the idea that the primary has a firing delay? I'm 99% certain that it does not have any intentional delay, and it just feels delayed like every other projectile weapon in the game due to the netcode.

            IMO rockets are still too fast for the current movement speed, and they need a smoke trail badly. The firing animation is also pretty bad and that's probably part of what makes them feel delayed. 80 damage for direct hits could also be tested, unless there's some other way to drastically decrease the effectiveness of randomly spam clicking while aiming at the sky.

            Overall close range combat just feels like ***** in this game right now. It's seriously infuriating. Whether you're fighting a guy with Flak or Rockets, close range fights just feel random, chaotic, and sloppy. This is probably due to multiple factors like movement, weapons, netcode, and character scale, but it's the biggest problem in the game right now.

            This is still probably the best build so far, but progress is so slow I'm fed up with the game. Probably not gonna touch it again until next build. Good luck Epic, hopefully we can get something playable by 2024.

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              #7
              Rocket launcher sucks... I am horrible with them and hard for me to get a frag using them :x
              Take for ever to fire etc... And its hard to aim at my opponents feet. My opponents kill me a whole lot when I use the rockets because aiming at my opponents feet is a hard thing to do and hitting my opponent directly with the rockets is just as hard or even harder for me :x :x :s
              So I tend not to use rockets much.
              "I smash like a comet, with John Connor type importance for tomorrow."

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                #8
                The problem with the splash damage is that it always deals a minimum 20 damage. If that was removed it would suddenly be alright. Other than that, the rockets just need to be harder to hit. I would like to keep the direct hit 100 damage, because it feels satisfying. It's not like the Quake RL isn't better either. It might not deal lethal damage, but you can just juggle people with it, until they die.

                As for charging rockets, I already suggested many times replacing it with a swarm missile system. It is still chargeable, but the rockets would explode into 3 tiny rockets, dealing far less damage.

                Imho, at this point we should just go back to stock UT3 settings with most weapons, which was the most balanced out of all the games. Keep the new Enforcer, Stinger, Impact Hammer, make a Bio Launcher with nerfed bioweb default and we're good to go. Maybe increase weapon switch speed (we've been begging for this for half a year now...).
                Last edited by InVader; 06-06-2016, 05:29 AM.
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                  #9
                  Rockets need to be:

                  1. Slower.
                  2. 0 point collision.
                  3. LoS Radius damage.
                  4. 1 dmg minimum.
                  5. without salvos all together.
                  6. without grenades all together.
                  7. More forgiving to lock on.
                  8. immune to or outside the effects of prediction and compensation.

                  They do NOT need to be:

                  A. Less damaging.
                  B. Less radius.

                  Also, someone should whip up a RL with an alt fire that attempts an instantly locked rocket, but only locks if you click "on" the target, and otherwise fires a straight rocket.
                  Originally posted by Mysterial
                  An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                    #10
                    they are just so unsatisfying
                    getting hit in the face by rockets repeatedly, when it looks on your screen like its gone over your shoulder, is just ridiculous

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                      Rockets need to be:

                      1. Slower.
                      2. 0 point collision.
                      3. LoS Radius damage.
                      4. 1 dmg minimum.
                      5. without salvos all together.
                      6. without grenades all together.
                      7. More forgiving to lock on.
                      8. immune to or outside the effects of prediction and compensation.

                      They do NOT need to be:

                      A. Less damaging.
                      B. Less radius.

                      Also, someone should whip up a RL with an alt fire that attempts an instantly locked rocket, but only locks if you click "on" the target, and otherwise fires a straight rocket.
                      That's a pretty nice list there, but I would increase the speed instead, exactly to how it was in November 2015 (I think). Having too slow rockets is incredibly unsatisfying. They are already a bit too slow.

                      0 point collision seems like a radical change, but it might actually be worth a try. I'm just worried that people will start complaining when they see rockets flying through the sides of enemies.

                      I also agree that the salvo needs to be removed/changed. I've been suggesting micro-swarm missiles for months now. Would let us easily scale damage, radius, flight pattern without confusing players with the difference compared to regular rockets. + it would still be satisfying to use yet balanced, if done right.
                      Last edited by InVader; 06-12-2016, 07:32 AM.
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                        #12
                        I think we get satisfaction from very different things. Fast rockets are easy frags.
                        Originally posted by Mysterial
                        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                          Rockets need to be:

                          1. Slower.
                          2. 0 point collision.
                          3. LoS Radius damage.
                          4. 1 dmg minimum.
                          5. without salvos all together.
                          6. without grenades all together.
                          7. More forgiving to lock on.
                          8. immune to or outside the effects of prediction and compensation.

                          They do NOT need to be:

                          A. Less damaging.
                          B. Less radius.

                          Also, someone should whip up a RL with an alt fire that attempts an instantly locked rocket, but only locks if you click "on" the target, and otherwise fires a straight rocket.
                          The only thing Í agree with is number 5 and I'd rather see them removing the lock than improving it. I'd also like the blast radius to be smaller, direct hit damage to be lower and the rocket to be slightly faster.

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                            #14
                            Sounds like plasma.
                            Originally posted by Mysterial
                            An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                              I think we get satisfaction from very different things. Fast rockets are easy frags.
                              But with these slow rockets the direct hits seem very random. It feels like your aim doesn't even matter, because most direct hits happen as a result of the other playing accidentally walking into it. Otherwise the rockets are rather easy to dodge.

                              + I'm not sure what's going on with the primary fire in this build, but it feels like there's a very slight delay on it. Even in offline bot games. Although I might only feel this way, because the fire rate on all the weapons is incredibly low and I'm used to them being faster.
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