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Let's just go back to UT3 weapon settings with most guns

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    Let's just go back to UT3 weapon settings with most guns

    I think at this point starting anew beats trying to balance this massive mess.

    Keep the new Enforcer, Impact Hammer, Bio grenades (not web), shard-jump and rocket-jump options, and set all the other weapons back to the way they were in UT3 v2.5.

    All the weapons have such a depressingly low fire rate. The new movement is good enough. Getting it to perfection is just a matter or tweaking numbers. However, the weapons hold the game back from being a fast-paced shooter. Fast movement speed and advanced movement options alone do not necessarily make a game "fast-paced".

    I feel like the bad gunplay affects level design as well. Fixing this should take priority over creating beautiful maps. :/
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    #2
    nah

    Should go all the way back to UT1999

    That's the best

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      #3
      Oh please no

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        #4
        Originally posted by Spector CZ View Post
        Oh please no
        You think it is better right now? Maybe you have a better idea?
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          #5
          Originally posted by InVader View Post
          You think it is better right now? Maybe you have a better idea?
          I hated the weapons in UT3. That's all I'm saying. No, the ballance now isn't perfect, but we have lot's of great stuff here, which would improve that. Wail's weapons, faster weapon switch... We don't need to go back to something, that failed.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Spector CZ View Post
            I hated the weapons in UT3. That's all I'm saying. No, the ballance now isn't perfect, but we have lot's of great stuff here, which would improve that. Wail's weapons, faster weapon switch... We don't need to go back to something, that failed.
            iirc, Wail's weapon also took UT3 weapons as base and built upon that. Balance-wise that is. Their "feeling" is truly unique though... well, somewhat.

            I might be wrong...
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              #7
              Originally posted by InVader View Post
              iirc, Wail's weapon also took UT3 weapons as base and built upon that. Balance-wise that is. Their "feeling" is truly unique though... well, somewhat.

              I might be wrong...
              Well if you look at it, all weapons are close to some UT. But the feal of them is somewhat different every time. And I hated it in UT3. I don't know, maybe the sound was throwing me off, but I would not bet on it. Wail's weapons are really close to those in UT99 imo, with lots of new techniques, some of them I do, some of them I do not like. But lot's of weapons in UT3 were garbage... flak, bio, sniper, enforcer...

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                #8
                Originally posted by Spector CZ View Post
                Well if you look at it, all weapons are close to some UT. But the feal of them is somewhat different every time. And I hated it in UT3. I don't know, maybe the sound was throwing me off, but I would not bet on it. Wail's weapons are really close to those in UT99 imo, with lots of new techniques, some of them I do, some of them I do not like. But lot's of weapons in UT3 were garbage... flak, bio, sniper, enforcer...
                I'll admit that as far as feeling goes, some UT3 guns did take time to get used to (especially the Enforcer), but after that they really grow on you. Well, it's not like most people played it long enough to find out

                That being said, I don't see how out of all the guns the Bio was worse compared to previous iterations. In UT3 it was actually useful for once and I really liked the dmg-over-time on the alt-fire.

                I'd also like to point out that weapon balance and what the weapons feel like to use do not necessarily directly correlate. e.g. Regardless of how strong you make the current Sniper rifle, it still sounds like a peashooter :P I'm only suggesting to go back to UT3 with weapon balance only.
                Last edited by InVader; 06-12-2016, 07:49 AM.
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                  #9
                  For one; epic is never going to change the whole weapon-set into something it was 9 years ago and secondly, it'd hardly improve the balance to have ut3 weapons in the game.
                  :|

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                    #10
                    The thing is, UT4 Flak and Rockets AFAIK have the exact same fire rate as UT3's. So no, I'd rather we go from where we are currently and make fire rate faster while nerfing some other properties rather than use UT3 weapons.

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                      #11
                      UT3 weapons wouldn't necessarily work well in this game. They were balanced really well (probably the best in the series), but that was in UT3. They need to be adjusted according to other aspects of the game, i.e. movement. I think the design of the weapons currently in UT4 is good, it's just the balance that's the issue. Rockets, Flak and Link seriously need a damage nerf. If Epic refuses to nerf them, this game is basically f*cked since nobody likes dying in one shot across a map to a short-medium range weapon, or being insta-killed despite having a large stack by a Flak cannon, or being spammed to death by a Link Gun.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Orion` View Post
                        UT3 weapons wouldn't necessarily work well in this game. They were balanced really well (probably the best in the series), but that was in UT3. They need to be adjusted according to other aspects of the game, i.e. movement. I think the design of the weapons currently in UT4 is good, it's just the balance that's the issue. Rockets, Flak and Link seriously need a damage nerf. If Epic refuses to nerf them, this game is basically f*cked since nobody likes dying in one shot across a map to a short-medium range weapon, or being insta-killed despite having a large stack by a Flak cannon, or being spammed to death by a Link Gun.
                        I think UT3 weapons, compared to all other UTs, would fit UT4 best, actually. 2k4 weapons wouldn't work due to no dodge jump, and UT99 weapons would be way too OP with UT4's ping comp, movement, and map scale. Not to say that UT3 weapons would work perfectly, but they are probably the best fit.

                        I actually think UT4 has bad weapon design. The balance isn't even that bad, I mean UT99 Shock and Sniper were so OP you never needed to use another gun in any situation. However UT4 weapons just feel like they lack finesse, feel laggy, are slow and clunky. If the weapons are fun to use, I wouldn't even care that much about balance. IMO, we need to make them feel good first, and then balance around that.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
                          For one; epic is never going to change the whole weapon-set into something it was 9 years ago and secondly, it'd hardly improve the balance to have ut3 weapons in the game.
                          I realize the chances of that happening is small, but you know, just in case it might actually work...

                          Could you please elaborate why balance wouldn't be better, maybe with some examples? I do realize that UT3 wasn't flawless balance-wise. Lot of weapons still had a bit too high damage (e.g. Enforcer), but somehow it all worked and in terms of enjoyment it was definitively better. Improving upon that design would be a lot easier (which is also what Wail did, iirc).

                          Originally posted by Orion` View Post
                          UT3 weapons wouldn't necessarily work well in this game. They were balanced really well (probably the best in the series), but that was in UT3. They need to be adjusted according to other aspects of the game, i.e. movement. I think the design of the weapons currently in UT4 is good, it's just the balance that's the issue. Rockets, Flak and Link seriously need a damage nerf. If Epic refuses to nerf them, this game is basically f*cked since nobody likes dying in one shot across a map to a short-medium range weapon, or being insta-killed despite having a large stack by a Flak cannon, or being spammed to death by a Link Gun.
                          In all of the previous games you could get insta-killed, but somehow that was alright. Rox in UT3 still had 100 damage, but the primary still felt both balanced and skillful (the tri-pack still being op though).

                          In comparison the rockets in this build feel very... random. If you do score a direct hit, it's because the enemy walked into it. Otherwise they are very easily dodgeable. It's just the minimum 20 damage on the AOE that's annoying. The primary fire also feels weird, as if there was a very small delay on it (even offline vs. bots).

                          This is the reason I want a roll-back. We might not be able to correctly identify the cause of why some weapons suck or are considered overpowered and as a result we try to balance them in ways that might further degrade gameplay. Right now a lot of people are suggesting to lower the rocket's damage below 100 to avoid insta-kills, but then how come lethal damage worked so well in UT3? There's lots of factors at play here and most of us are not aware of all of 'em.

                          Originally posted by Barktooth
                          If the weapons are fun to use, I wouldn't even care that much about balance. IMO, we need to make them feel good first, and then balance around that.

                          Agreed.
                          Last edited by InVader; 06-12-2016, 04:08 PM.
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                            #14
                            I do not understand that the new developers want to take from UT99 and why all these comparisons with UT99?

                            1) Guns in UT99 have a not very good graphical desigen - very good gameplay desigen - and not good ballance desigen.
                            2) Guns in UT2004 have a medium graphical desigen - good gameplay desigen (but much simple guns) - and dont know about ballance, but when consider what say about the shield-gun, ballance is not so perfect as say UT2004 fans.
                            3) Guns in UT3 have a very good graphical desigen - also good gameplay desigen - and not perfect but good ballance desigen (last version game). Only impact hammer and biorifle, not good. AVRIL is wrong weapon too.

                            Think UT3 developers wanted to make a comprehensive graphical - gameplay - world desigen game. UT99 or UT2004 fans who makes the UT4 can say a lot of bad things about UT3, but it is likely to be made without a truth, but rather a desire to make a game using a simple UT99 circuit, which can be implemented, unlike UT4 like UT3+++ world. Funs can say UT3 is worst, lets make the trully UT4 from UT99 (becouse it is possible). And will ok. New UT4 is ready, UT3 is completely forgotten. They made a new game. But who played in UT3, can say what now enforcer looks like super detailed small brick with super texture in hands, or new maps looks like boxing ring or developers super attention to the quality of the balance no one is impressed, as the game is not very interesting. It is not serious to say bad things about the UT3 and make UT99 like game. Why new developers do not believe that the UT3 is a continuation of the UT series. Becouse Gears of war like? Yes the colors and some elements can be more like high end UT99, and will be better, but not weapons, vehicles and world in the overall. Think that the UT3 developers have chosen the right direction, to the next UT4 game has become something more.

                            About arena shooter i heard on this forum. Is someone came up with the term and someone decided that trully UT only if it will be arena shooter? Is Mechwarrior online, UT3, Quake 3, Crysis multiplayer, Stalker mutiplayer etc arena shooters? Or if it called arena shooter the game must has a specific set of rules and if it is to change that will destroy all and will no longer be arena shooter. It sounds very strange. UT3 game more like a semi online game world, than UT4 looks now, becouse there are much gameplay-graphical elements (soldiers, weapons, vehicles, all maps like a one world, not as someone in that much). Make UT4 game like place for capsule scan with full mouse and game settings and a lot of duel experience pro players is possible but other players always can buy UT3 and play in it for as long as they wants play like in semi-online game for them and do not take a new game. UT3 looks like a super platform for semi online game or for shooter online game. Throw it all and make a new game is very strange. I mean basic UT3 elements - dimensions, proportions, feel, no repetition of elements, not "square objectivity". Now developers can be easy to forget about rocket launcher grenades and add 1) bio 2) grenade launcher, and do work with it. Is the next step is to add a new light gun (second sniper rifle)? And now the new developers perhaps may think that they have revived the UT. But the old UT developers must be can only smile. I do not want anything bad to say about the new developers (from community) who has no experience and resources, but does a lot of work as a true developers but really, for me, as an outside observer, make hard work for better balance in pre alpfa is a very strange, make game like UT99 is doubly strange. Imagine a person has long ago played UT3 and greatly admired. Now running UT4 release game and expecting that there will be a wider world detect "trully arena shooter for pro". Do not think he will play much. There is nothing unreal. Its unreal for UT99, UT2004 and UT3 also, but not there. Why not take base from UT3, colors-light from UT2004, world elements from UT99, but not make fundamentally new UT99. Hope that this desire was only at the beginning of development and now the game will be more like a new part than to the new old UT99 remake.
                            Last edited by Andriushka; 06-14-2016, 07:27 PM.

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                              #15
                              [QUOTE=nah

                              Should go all the way back to UT1999

                              That's the best[/QUOTE]

                              Originally posted by Spector CZ View Post
                              Oh please no
                              Oh please yes!!

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