Removing Grenades from Rocket Launcher - Bio-Launcher as only grenade launcher

[richardboegli]

From UT Discord about 1.5 hours ago:
@RZE - Today at 5:08 AM (AWST)
So random topics to discuss:

• Rocket Launcher now only has Primary fire and Secondary fire without additional modes. There are no longer a grenade function on the RL. This means secondary is only the charge up 3 and fire mode now.
• Bio-Launcher has been converted to a Grenade Launcher that we're prototyping. Similar Primary functions but trying to find something more lob based and less about the auto Web for the secondary.
• Bio-Rifle is still a thing that functions like older games and Kazeo is doing an amazing model on the forums.
• Stinger Alt fire is still in super flux and has gone through a few experiements as well.
• Link Gun is still seeing more tweaks for damage and functionality on the primary and overheat mechanic.

All work in progress and likely to continue being iterated on or changed entirely. Discuss. :P

@RZE - Today at 5:12 AM (AWST)
"So, in UT there will be both Bio Launcher and Bio Rifle? One is not replacing the other?" - We've confirmed having a Bio-Rifle so far. The Launcher was a experiement to replace it with a newer more interesting weapon. That weapon is slowly becoming something more like a lob weapon that will fill that role all together. I imagine Bio-Launcher will go away if the new launcher is good.
"I am going to play unreal tournament on my asus gtx 1080 founder's edition, now I just need the evga 6-8 pin adapter lux" - GL have fun
"Or rather more similar to bio launcher and we wont have rocket grenades anymore?" - Rocket Grenades are gone

---
Thanks to [MENTION=9235]bacon buster[/MENTION]; for reposting in UTAUNZ discord which is how it caught my eye
My initial thoughts:

1. For new people coming into the series, having grenades as a secondary fire is cumbersome. It's not as instant as it needs to be.
2. RL Grenades served as a great way to cancel a rocket launch if required. ie: loaded up some rockets, but cannot fire in intended direction now for some reason. So losing them is slightly annoying, but not a deal breaker
3. since we are going down this path, could we look at making it such that if you hold down the primary fire you could remote control the angle of the rocket after firing

[bacon buster]

i think it's a pretty sensible, good idea to remove grenades from rockets, and add their similar functionality to the bio

[code187]

I personally like the bio how it was in every other previous UT i did use it a fair bit so i do miss it, its not the same. Fun is gone out of the weapon. Cheers on that one Epic. Now i dont use it thumbs up.

Grenades in ut4 have always been **** again compared to previous ut's i cant understand why since they nailed it every other time. maybe just got the code working and figured they will return to it later. Still holding my breath there.

As for removing grenades from rocket and adding it to bio NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Edit: I dont care what epic do while experimenting in the kitchen in pre alpha but so long when they are finished making fries they put salt with ketchup like everyone likes it rather then soy sauce cos its frest idea and a bunch of idiots who yell the loudest say its amazing and make it stick.

[Wail]

I don't particularly care for it, since UT as a game overall was largely defined by weapons that were inventive, multifaceted, and unique. The idea of pushing grenades off of the Rocket Launcher and onto the Bio Rifle is essentially admitting the Bio itself is gone, and just cramming in a TF2 style Demo weapon in there with a green skin.

[Darkloser]

I wish I was present during this conversation.

Short rage nonsense about the topic : "**** THAT BIO LAUNCHER ! **** THE GAME ! **** EVERYTHING ! KEEP MY BELOVED GOO SPITTING DEVICE AND ITS GREEN POOP !" *flip tables*

More reasonable and constructed criticisms :
I will as well shed a tear about the grenades getting removed from the Rocket Launcher, because of nostalgia, but I'm not against the idea to put them elsewhere and do a true dedicated Grenade Launcher. Especially knowing that there was different kind of Grenade Launcher through the Unreal series (UT2k4, UC2, U:RTNP, U2 and XMP).So there's totally room for it.
What I'm totally against however, is the creation of the Bio launcher, and to remove the identity of what makes the Bio so interesting : It's a tube launching toxic green substance, sticky and melting you, delivering a painful and disgusting death. For me the Bio Launcher is just a reskin for a rather classic GL, scrapping what makes the core of the Bio Rifle.
I can understand that the Bio Rifle performs poorly in it's current state, yet there's plenty of idea to make this weapon powerful enough while still keeping the goo launcher idea (Gooba's solid wall was one, and many people here including me gave ideas as well).

[Smurgl]

The underlying problem with the bio rifle is that the primary fire is so unreliable. It is a lobbed glob of goo that isn't particularly fast and has no splash damage. So, you have to aim ahead of your opponent and hit them directly, and so if they're not moving in a straight line it feels completely random whether you are going to hit. The secondary fire can be useful, e.g. dropping it on a flag so that someone can't nick it and run, or doing a 1 off heavy damage.

Having said that, I never use it. I find the enforcer is a more potent and reliable weapon and so bio is very much last on the list. So I thought it was good that Epic realised this and experimented with a different bio related weapon... but they made it a pure spam weapon. No good either in my view.

Perhaps the solution is to have some sort of short range goo spray. Maybe with a damage over time effect for variety?

I use the rocket launcher grenades all the time. They are a picked as a last minute decision whilst charging rockets, or maybe dropping one at a time whilst you run away with the flag/from an opponent. They work well because the RL has this active and passive fire mode.

If the grenades were removed from the rocket launcher and placed onto another weapon, I think I'd just stop using grenades. They're too unpredictable to be an "active" fire mode and the weapon switch times means that it would be too risky to switch between that and an active fire weapon like rockets or flak. I also think if changes are to be made to the rocket launcher it should be to adjust the trirox.

I didn't mind the stinger fire, although it feels a bit weak and also very difficult to see where you're getting hit from. Others didn't like the link mechanic, but I don't mind it at all - I think it forces you to "aim" your spam that bit more.

Overall, I'm pleased that the weapons are getting focused on.

[code187]

I have this crazy idea on how the bio should function check out this clip of the demonstration.

Yes thank you for watching leave it original for the ones who mastered it, cos its fun.

EDIT: There is a open slot since the ripper is gone for a new weapon can be a proper grenade launcher. Leave Britney ALONE!

[Smurgl]

Not many bio primary kills there!

[Cunni]

Bio launcher is not a bad idea. Need to be tweaked of course to reduce damage, toxic smoke.

If grenades were removed (to avoid redundancy with bio launcher), then weapon switch should be much faster. Else bio launcher will only be used as respawn weapon and not situational weapon.

[Quotidian]

I don't see the point of it, but that goes for almost everything they're doing with this game at this point...

[Cunni]

The point is that bio primary fire is NEVER used by a decent player since 1999...

[Zoh]

Bio launcher is not a bad idea. Need to be tweaked of course to reduce damage, toxic smoke.

If grenades were removed (to avoid redundancy with bio launcher), then weapon switch should be much faster. Else bio launcher will only be used as respawn weapon and not situational weapon.

Yeah I agree, if the weapon switch time is too long I think it won't see very much use, but with a faster switch time it could be a really useful weapon.

[Clawfist]

To clarify, what we are actually trying is - RL no longer has grenades, bio rifle will go back to being bio rifle, bio launcher ditches the bio theme and evolve into a new lob weapon with its own theme and a new alt fire.

[code187]

To clarify, what we are actually trying is - RL no longer has grenades, bio rifle will go back to being bio rifle, bio launcher ditches the bio theme and evolve into a new lob weapon with its own theme and a new alt fire.

Thanx for clearing that up, that is fantastic to hear

[Zoh]

To clarify, what we are actually trying is - RL no longer has grenades, bio rifle will go back to being bio rifle, bio launcher ditches the bio theme and evolve into a new lob weapon with its own theme and a new alt fire.

Is the plan for the new weapon have its own weapon group and be a part of the default weapon set alongside the bio?
Also can the new theme be lava/magma because that would be really cool (actually it'd probably be really hot).