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Removing Grenades from Rocket Launcher - Bio-Launcher as only grenade launcher

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    #16
    Or electric for the lightning fans.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
      To clarify, what we are actually trying is - RL no longer has grenades, bio rifle will go back to being bio rifle, bio launcher ditches the bio theme and evolve into a new lob weapon with its own theme and a new alt fire.
      That's all I wanted to hear !
      Gonna try to find a new cool theme for that lobbed weapon right now !
      *googles frantically*

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        #18
        Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
        To clarify, what we are actually trying is - RL no longer has grenades, bio rifle will go back to being bio rifle, bio launcher ditches the bio theme and evolve into a new lob weapon with its own theme and a new alt fire.
        still makes the rocket launcher a whole lot less cool and unique. A giant trade down as far as I'm concerned

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          #19
          There are no longer a grenade function on the RL
          Do not remove grenades. Rocket launcher alt. fire shoots large bombs rather than grenades. In UT3 and now it so - large cylindrical bomb and a ignited the wick or trace in air. This bombs are slow and heavy and flying close, they bounces off the obstacles. Grenade launcher shoot fast speed and more flying range light grenades with a minimum bounces off the obstacles or stick to objects. Do not remove the things that have worked and normal-looking. Call this alt. fire mode - bombs. Switching between Rockets - Bombs.

          All guns in UT have different types of shooting, even redeemer shoots actually different missiles. In this case, the rocket launcher will shoot a single missile as in Quake. Triple shot is not alt. fire (this is more like shooting type in one standart fire mode). If you remove the bomb, you practically remove rocket launcher weapon, its features. Even enforcer one and triple shots are much different then rocket launcher has even if take into account that enforcer fire modes could be better in UT.

          You can add feature for slow rocket launcher bombs - detect the enemy and explode near him. Damage less, but more likely to make damage. Hardly any other weapon (even completely new) will shoot large bombs that can to do the big rocket launcher weapon. Flak alt. fire is like something in between bombs and grenades, and has an average speed shot.

          Rocket launcher bombs also can be avril like missiles (maybe not so fast flying) versus vehicles, transforming in air when vehicle aim captured and bombs button reliased.

          Stinger Alt fire is still in super flux and has gone through a few experiements as well
          Previous stinger minigun fire modes are good. Why change them capitally? You can even add a combo attack if add some changes into primary fire. Seventh post https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtour...346#post255346

          Does epic developers know about this changes or they do not care about weapon abilities? I write this because remove something without improving it (and such attempts were not as far as I know) looks not good. You are guided by that? Lack brought to normal form variables in balance and therefore the removal of something form gameplay side or what? Or delete something in UT increasing "popularity" in "e-sport", do not understand. As far as I understand it is best to make it improve, as far as can add or improve a lot of gameplay features to all weapons and then change the balance, but not to change weapons gameplay abilities becouse some balance filling is not very good. Balance is always done at the end of development. I do not think there are good reasons to remove something from standart solid gameplay weapons (rocket launcher or stinger minigun)

          Added

          Or you change stinger minigun firing capitally becouse eightball made working iron minigun? That's so simple just remove crystals, two different types of shooting (small shards and full size crystal). Developers definitely pay attention to it?
          Last edited by Andriushka; 09-10-2016, 06:57 AM.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Quotidian View Post
            still makes the rocket launcher a whole lot less cool and unique. A giant trade down as far as I'm concerned
            i'd love to see the stats for kills by fire mode with rockets
            i'd say there would be 5% at best for grenade kills, if you're lucky

            i've got no problem with rockets losing grenade functionality, as it's a broken mechanic anyway
            bio is effectively useless too. i'd estimate about 2% of all kills would be with the bio

            it would be great to see it made more useful, and the rockets wont be any less effective without grenades
            Last edited by bacon buster; 09-11-2016, 07:38 PM.

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              #21
              2% bio is probably optimistic too!

              I do use the grenades on the rocket launcher and it will be a shame to lose them. I would prefer to lose the trirox overall.
              Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

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                #22
                Originally posted by bacon buster View Post
                i'd love to see the stats for kills by fire mode with rockets
                i'd say there would be 5% at best for grenade kills, if you're lucky

                i've got no problem with rockets losing grenade functionality, as it's a broken mechanic anyway
                bio is effectively useless too. i'd estimate about 2% of all kills would be with the bio

                it would be great to see it made more useful, and the rockets wont be any less effective without grenades
                I really don't give two sh!ts about stats... Unreal has always been about having unique, cool weapons that are fun to use. The new UT rocket launcher is already really bland and boring compared to earlier iterations. This new change just makes it even worse.
                Last edited by Quotidian; 09-12-2016, 07:35 AM.

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                  #23
                  problem is, noone thinks it's fun, unique or cool
                  it's just ****

                  this change will make is more useful, and cool hopefully

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by bacon buster View Post
                    problem is, noone thinks it's fun, unique or cool
                    it's just ****

                    this change will make is more useful, and cool hopefully
                    speak for yourself

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                      #25
                      Well the only way I can really support this idea is if the RL secondary fire gives us the choice of rocket spread. So we can pick the rocket pattern we fire. This would be really fun to use in combat as people cant predict the load of a rocket spread. You could choose like 1 of 3 types. Delayed like it currently is, Line spread like how it was in past UTs or Triangle Spread. If you just have the rockets do primary 1 rocket fire and secondary 3 successive rocket fires, its going to be a really boring weapon. Primary and Secondary are nearly identical, just one fires more rockets and has a loading phase.
                      Last edited by PayBack; 09-12-2016, 11:25 AM.
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                        #26
                        I'm personally of the camp of not changing the RL at all- the grenades are a part of what made it unique. This being said, I like PayBack's idea of choosing the spread, and making a dedicated grenade launcher weapon. If it HAS to be done- to me, this is the most logical route. You need a nade launcher, and the rocket launcher needs to be unique.

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                          #27
                          It doesn't make sense to split out functionality of guns as long as the weapon switch is so slow. The reason grenades made sense on rox was that you didn't have to switch weapons in order to use a different type of ammunition. That's the only way you can add variety to weapon play is to either have multiple firing modes or faster weapon switch.
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                            #28
                            The current RL sucks for a list of reasons I may make a thread about. That said, it should probably get back to it's roots. As much as I'd love a classic style single strong rocket launcher, that shoots slow rockets with big AoE, the whole premise behind the original 8balls were mini rockets. This is why they made sense in 6 packs, and with a grenade option. I've never liked the trident. There is only one good way to take a one shot lethal rocket, and allow people to load it in salvos. This is probably why they dropped the damage and salvo size in 2kx, but said changes, and the movement essentially made single rockets obsolete, and it was just a spam cannon. Single rockets needed to do 100 damage in that game, and that would have just made trirox over the top. They should have kept the logistics, and scaled the damage back.

                            Bring back 6 packs, keep grenades on the 8ball, drop rocket damage to 85, reduce AoE a touch, keep the speed low, reduce the fire interval, and extend the load delay. Follow with speed tweaks. Dunno what to do with the spread, honestly, I really don't think it should allow many options. Too much unpredictability makes for no defensive movement. The paint your own thing is too fast to do anything fancy, and too difficult to dodge artfully. I preferred the slower sequential, when it felt like you could place each rocket, and potentially juggle, chain, or DoT suppress with them.

                            Goo can be tooled to work. UT goo had many uses, some that were lost with the floaty movement of 2kx. The projectiles felt reduced in size, and it was far too easy to wall kick jump over a load. The web would have made more sense there, since it covered the air in between. Also now that maps are a bit "tighter" like in UT, painting corridors can be much more effective again. Give it a big projectile model, and match the collision to it. Make it big, but not so it looks magnetic like in UT3. Mimic the UT spread behavior, or use the web. You might also contemplate with longer lobbed shots a sort of "mirv" effect, where the big blob breaks up and paints an area from above, instead of point of impact. Also it probably needs to do better damage again, good aoe on player contact, and more sub globs on surface contact. Direct hit seem far more likely to not be lethal now, and you really can't "paint" with it anymore.

                            Beyond that, you could also play with it ignoring armor, or having custom dampening, due to the nature of it. Really not sure how much functionality is left for a "canister" weapon.
                            Originally posted by Mysterial
                            An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                              #29
                              i wouldnt remove grenades

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                                #30
                                Ya'll are just pushing your stupid nostalgia on the game for no good reason. The grenades on the RL were never particularly good in any iteration of UT. The Bio always sucked too, except maybe in UT3, where at least the alt-fire was somewhat useful.

                                I don't know why we need to add another weapon, instead of putting those functionalities on the useless weapon, to make them actually useful. Were just wasting weapon slots here. The Bio Rifle was never a viable weapon - not as a mine layer or for are denial. I don't understand why can't we just replace it with the Bio Launcher and make it default. Most people are only worried about it's visual identity anyways - we can easily replace grenades with bouncing Bio blobs. There, now it's both useful AND an actual Bio rifle.

                                Same with R. Remove the useless grenades and put the simultaneous 3pack with horizontal and spiral pattern back in. The current alt-fire is just a worse version of the old 3-pack: that is, equally deadly, but less fun and more clunky to use.

                                While we're there, we could maybe implement the Hammer-Forcer as well. That would free up another weapon slot and we could put a more useful version of the Ripper or that bolas weapon in the game, like everyone wanted to.
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