Removing Grenades from Rocket Launcher - Bio-Launcher as only grenade launcher

[axny]

The new grenade launcher really has no redeeming qualities. I feel ripped off every time I spawn next to one in DM.

Demoman was always my favorite class in TF2. I understand the joy of lobbed weapons. But this is the wrong combination of slow, high blast radius, short range, and underpowered-on-anything-other-than-a-direct-hit. You are at a vast disadvantage against really any other weapon. Spawning with the enforcer alone is already weakness enough. And on top of that, the biorifle sort of already covers the lobbing niche.

I love the other weapons, though I think the UT99 rocket / grenade launcher made a lot more sense if there's going to be anything grenade-like in the game.

[e1vp]

Bring back nades to Rocket Launcher and tweak it. Bring back BIO RIFLE and also tweak it!!! Or make BIO GL.
Just ordinary GL is too plain and boring for UT style.

[ThePeregrine]

Another vote for leaving nades in the Rocket Launcher. Played a little this weekend and was
A) Bummed to see no nades on the RL. It's not nostalgia, whoever said that. It made it a unique weapon. Period. And I used nades a lot!
Now it's just a rocket launcher that shoot 3 rox...
B) The 'new' granade launcher is horrible. Believe I tried it. A lot. Did I mention I like grenades? Not only did I kill not one person with normal or sticky nades... you know what else I noticed? Not one other person was using the grenade launcher.

Bring it back or give me an official reason for removing it.

[Andriushka]

RL grenades are more like heavy bombs - block the enemy direction of movement, becouse much damage, use bounces, use arc flight direction and this weapon for checking places. It works not like medium-long range fast grenades, it is something else even without tweaks or gain.

does anyone even use that auto fire option with RL

Somewhere I have already written about this, I repeat, that this option is very controversial. As I know this option can not be used in shooting properly and uses a whole separate one button for that. Yes, this is a linear fire mod, like shock rifle alt. fire, but the difference is that this is RL and this is shock rifle. For RL is possible to make an exception, becouse shock rifle alt fire small cores are mass and fast and usable with hold fire button unlike RL slow fire modes.

[Smurgl]

Quite simply, I would prefer to see a single rocket (primary) and grenades as the secondary than what we have now.

[nubizZz]

It's not about autofire it's about instafire. The difference between firing a rocket on press, vs on release. It's important to rocket purists.

[Danko955]

Maybe slightly offtopic but does anyone even use that auto fire option with RL.
Like holding LMB to shoot automatically, i see epic talks abou rl being overcomplicated but why even have this fire mode at all.
I personally never hold click to shoot.

Before you had LMB for rox and RMB for grenades, hold either to charge, simple as that.
Like whats the advantage of auto fire. I doubt you would even shoot faster holding click than me clicking fast, and even if so it would be 0.001 seconds faster.

[Andriushka]

I remembered why RL grenades are epic in UT, you shoot rockets at the enemy that stands on a hill (flat most of all) and when he went away hiding ago shoot grenades into him hoping to hit him. Grenades could be faster or have some tweaks of course. With linear RL you need to switch to something else, and this is "standart MP FPS games" like weapon-gameplay. I think that the developers forgot about much things for a long time. Unreal tournament is a unique game, but uniqueness is not due to non-compliance and vice versa parody something, but because, game consist of interrelated things wherein one element is also interconnected with other, and game has nothing generic in graphic or gameplay.

[Hayrack]

Why not moving all Rocket launcher fire modes to primary and using secondary to switch between them, along with making grenades actually useful? Too hip?

[SX]

personally not sad to see the grenades from the RL go, didn't use them that much anyways. :P

As for Grenade Launcher? I'd like to see the UC2 Incarnation make a return, primary fires timed/impact grenades, alt fires sticky grenades, alt+primary detonates them.

[nubizZz]

Probably because of netcode.

[InVader]

Practice it, and you'll get better at it. That means it's not random. It's really that simple.

I'd assume that tournament players know how to aim and they also say the direct hits are rather random.

[MENTION=13344]code187[/MENTION]
Show me one scenario where people used bio primary instead of hammer jumping. But yeah, I also think alt-fire charge time could be shorter in addition to working differently.

[nubizZz]

Curse][ was my favorite bio map.

[code187]

@InVader
Primary was used more for trick jumping, all secondary needs to do is charge the blob faster then it might be OP but worth a try. How fun was dropping it on the rocket launcher and throwing it down the ramp towards the mini and just camping the bio area in general.... Guaranteed DOMINATING spree. Apart from grinder i used it on every map. Phobos was another bio map for me But in UT4 Deck is the only good map ammo wise Other maps just run out of ammo too quickly yet still very fun on every map.

[nubizZz]

Practice it, and you'll get better at it. That means it's not random. It's really that simple.

I'm starting to think some of these people didn't use bio at all in UT. Originally the primary fire blobs did 60 damage. I think that was pretty useful. Also when you hit a player directly with a fully charged secondary, the AoE (which wasn't visible) was the same size as a combo, and did (probably over) twice the damage. If you caught a few people in close quarters with that gun, you left behind parts.

Bio wasn't OP in UT. Why they kept nerfing it over each iteration is beyond me, because it's essentially gotten not only singularly, but as well relatively weaker in each new title. With the AoE, and projectile speed it had in UT, it pretty much guaranteed that you had to be distant enough from your target that they could fairly easily dodge it if they saw it coming, lest it kill you both. It also guaranteed you had to have a decent amount of prediction to survive the shot if they didn't. It was tooled magnificently, and thus far has been the only bio iteration that I had actual fun using, not just a trolling gimmick because my target knew how hard the weapon was to use.

I'd be curious to see if people thought something tooled more like UT goo, with the indication of holding a charge we have now would be OP in the current weapon set. We only had audio indication in UT, and it was super low. I never once remember it doing it's job.