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    Flak cannon balance

    The flak cannon still puts out a high amount of damage at a ridiculously fast rate. The flak is far more reliable than the rocket launcher now. Since the grenades have been removed from the rocket launcher and the flak is more reliable, I rarely see anyone use the rocket launcher at close range because they prefer it. Now, players seem to only use the rocket launcher for the triple rockets. My suggestion is to reduce the flak fire rate by 50% or 30% something like that. The video below shows how powerful the flak cannon is and how it requires little to no skill to get the best out of the flak cannon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhr7RZPXG14

    #2
    The flak cannon should be more reliable than the rocket launcher, because it shoots a spread.

    The flak cannon, a close range weapon, preferred at close range. That's crazy! The rocket launche is a close/mid and in some ways long range weapon.

    That video shows the flak cannon being used as intended. It does not show the weapon can succeed with little to no skill, the player completely missed several times even at close range. A single missed shot like in that video can be the end of you. The flak cannon in that video did very little damage at long and mid range. Maybe the fire rate is too high, I don't know, but 3 shot for a kill being common is not over powered.

    You should check out UT2004's flak cannon it is very similar to the current flak cannon.

    Also the flak cannon is, always has been, and will probably always be the favorite weapon among noobs simply do to its nature of having a spread shot. That is not a problem. Also the flak cannon is really cool and has always been a big WOW factor in UT.
    Last edited by Unreal Gladiator; 05-06-2017, 12:38 AM.

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      #3
      Many people prefer slower gameplay including me, but Epic has stated they have no intentions to slow the game down. Game is not going to be balanced around dm or ctf that is my guess. More around blitz/fr and duels which favours faster fights.

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        #4
        Flak should be powerful in close range. Problem is if it makes too much damage on far away targets and/or hitting is made too easy

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          #5
          My problem isn't the fact that the flak does high damage at close range (i think it should actually do just a little more damage), it's the fact that its fire rate is so high. Now when someone misses a shot with the flak, it doesn't really matter since it can be fired again in the same second. Furthermore, when someone uses the dodge function to dodge the flak shards, they are actually put in a terrible spot since the player with the flak will be able to shoot again when the other player lands. As for range issues, It's a bit difficult to talk about since there is no definite measurement of what is close, mid, and far range; my concept of close range probably extends further than other people's. Also, I still see people only use the rocket launcher for the tri-rox.

          The day I recorded that video was one of my off days, I was just terrible in general. But that still didn't prevent me from killing 2 players that are far better than me, multiple times.
          Last edited by 83R; 05-06-2017, 06:33 PM.

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            #6
            I'd say halve the firing rate and bring damage back up to what it was at the highest (max 125) -- so very powerful close range weapon with high penalty for failed shots.

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              #7
              Yea fire rate needs to be slower so its possible to dodge at close range.

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                #8
                Originally posted by ness 710 View Post
                Yea fire rate needs to be slower so its possible to dodge at close range.
                How you dodge flak at close range? Same way you dodge sniper at long range? You shouldn't be able to dodge spot on flak hit at close range.

                I seriously don't get why everything should be so god **** slow. UT is (or at least it was) fast paced arena shooter, not some game elderly where you could go make a cup of tea while waiting between actions. Already there are 4 slow weapons, sniper, lightning gun, bio and primary mini (maybe secondary grenade launcher is kinda slow too). Primary flak should be deadly and efficient at close range. If the problem is that it is too deadly at mid or long range, that is easily fixed with changing shard spread and gravity and/or decreasing hit boxes. Don't make it slower.

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                  #9
                  The problem with Flak is this:


                  /Thread




                  No but seriously when shards are that much more bigger than it previously has been in past UTs, logics says that's likely an alarming thing needing to be adressed. The problem is the gun is too reliable that it doesn't make sense to use much other weapons because the shard hitbox sizes makes it way too reliable to make hits with. High potential damage output weapons are best balanced with a risk factor but there's no such thing as a risk factor with current flak gun. The high rate of fire doesn't help in this regard either.








                  - Rate of fire: 0.8 -> 1.0 sec
                  - Greatly reduce shard hitbox size
                  - THEN: start increasing maximum damage/buff falloff damage as needed
                  => balanced and FUN flak

                  EDIT: 2ndary flak shell could probably be speed up somewhat too.
                  Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 05-08-2017, 03:48 PM.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by teks1 View Post

                    How you dodge flak at close range? Same way you dodge sniper at long range? You shouldn't be able to dodge spot on flak hit at close range.

                    I seriously don't get why everything should be so god **** slow. UT is (or at least it was) fast paced arena shooter, not some game elderly where you could go make a cup of tea while waiting between actions. Already there are 4 slow weapons, sniper, lightning gun, bio and primary mini (maybe secondary grenade launcher is kinda slow too). Primary flak should be deadly and efficient at close range. If the problem is that it is too deadly at mid or long range, that is easily fixed with changing shard spread and gravity and/or decreasing hit boxes. Don't make it slower.
                    Simple really, if there is more delay between shots that makes it easier to dodge at close range because you can time your dodges easier. Flak should be deadly at close range but it should not be an instant for sure kill 99% of the time like it is now when you pull out.

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                      #11
                      UT was fast paced, and you could still dodge things. Fast movement, and fast weapon switching promote fast paced play without destroying counter play. Fast and powerful projectiles remove the ability to dodge them, which defeats the purpose of having a dodge. You can have a fast paced duel, or scrum with a longer TTK, and lower overall potential DPS weapons.

                      Potential DPS isn't even as big of a problem, and you don't always deal the potential. What becomes very problematic is high weapon efficacy. Fast projectiles. Minimum AoE damages. Larger Splash. Oversized projectile collisions. These are the current problems with this game.

                      The main reason the DPS and rate of the flak cannon is a problem right now is because the collisions size of the projectiles makes making full damage very easy when you are at the right range. It's more important to have the gun out at the right time, than to actually be able to aim, because it really doesn't require any.

                      Current weapon balance makes this game all about positioning and weapon selection. Aim and movement are really just for show.
                      Originally posted by Mysterial
                      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                        #12
                        I think they made the shards smaller already? We will see how it works out in the next public build.

                        1.0 in firerate would be too slow. They should increase it with about the same amount as last time.
                        Last edited by mewfin; 05-10-2017, 02:51 AM.

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                          #13
                          As someone new to UT, can I just say that flak is an uninteresting gun?

                          Since I'm relatively new I'm not going to give my opinion on balance for new vs. experienced players, or ranged vs. close combat.
                          But I just wanted to say that whatever the balance dynamics are for flak right now, can you please move that balance onto a different, more interesting, weapon? (perhaps the link or rocket launcher)

                          I know it's easy to get wrapped up in discussions over technical details and forget to take a step back for a second and actually ask if something is fun or not. But a giant cone of damage is honestly about the least interesting shooting mechanic in any FPS game since the dawn of time. I get that epic might want to give something reliable to new players, but you know the game still has to be fun for new players too, and if flak is their go-to weapon out of necessity then I don't see a whole lot of new players sticking around because the gun is so boring.
                          When it comes to arena shooters shotguns are usually for either hitting multiple targets at once, humiliating someone by getting really (REALLY) close up, or just finishing someone off. I don't think this genre benefits at all from having it as a bread-and-butter weapon.

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                            #14
                            Flak is great now, but the flak secondary seems to have a really big hit box which makes it op for games with more than 4.
                            Maps: DM-Dying_Sun WIP & DM-TokaraSwamp
                            www.shockandrockets.com

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                              #15
                              I think that, now, the secondary splash area is a bit too big and the primary still a little bit too weak. You have to be REALLY close to shred someone and it should allow a touch further away. Secondary flak spam can be a bit too easy to hit.
                              Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

                              My Pre-Alpha Highlights 2016 to early 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKlKQ349o8A | http://plays.tv/u/Smurgl

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