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Stand combo must go.

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    #16
    I'm not sure about that. I'm not good with moving combos, don't think it's worth the risk either- you can just hit with primary 2-3 times in that timescale.
    Although there may be some difference between those 2, none of these make any sense. But there may be workarounds for the "core".
    These come to my mind:

    1- Shock core can be made slower moving AND larger in radius. This way standing still will be more punishable, while hitting the core will be easier while moving.

    2-Shock core can slightly accelerate to mouse pointer, whilst having the combo's effective area lowered. This will change the mechanic pretty much. The lowered effective area will make it less defensive, but it can encourage new (maybe agressive) playstyles.

    Still, I think combos are least of a problem.
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      #17
      You guys wanna overcomplicate this game way too much, there's no need. That a player becomes a sitting duck if he overuses stombo is enough of a nerf. This hurts the newcomer experience too much that it's worth considering, a good player should be able to penalize a lesser skilled player for trying to stombo, stombo makes sense more in defensive manner when there's no direct line of sight and if the player decides to go on the offense in that case, it's his own fault.
      Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 05-10-2017, 07:53 AM.

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        #18
        Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
        Stombo makes sense more in defensive manner when there's no direct line of sight and if the player decides to go on the offense in that case, it's his own fault.
        And then we are waking up with a lot of scores like 1-1 in duel. Very exciting to watch. This is huge gameplay issue and I am sad that nobody here can see it.
        Last edited by rAge.; 05-10-2017, 08:16 AM.

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          #19
          It shouldn't be anything big. Standing combo to do 20-30 less max damage and that's it.
          Duel rankings contributor | running Unreal Tournament @ ESL

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            #20
            Originally posted by rAge. View Post

            And then we are waking up with a lot of scores like 1-1 in duel. Very exciting to watch. This is huge gameplay issue and I am sad that nobody here can see it.
            Then my answer is the game cannot be balanced around Duel (my comments are never based on duel) that only a few players play statistically, it doesn't make sense to balance something that makes up for like 5% of the playerbase that could potentially hurt the game as a whole, this is especially hurting newcomers as they are almost never even thinking of doing a moving combo to begin with, not in the heat of the battle, moving combos are typically something you start using when you get more experience.

            But if this would be added as per-game-mode rule set for duel like was done with amp, then that's fine.

            But I seriously doubt gameplay becomes better if you're buffing "forward-push"-mentality gameplay harder than it already is. It only leads to more one-sided tactics and I don't think that's going to benefit the game from a gameplay & longevity standpoint view. But okay I admit I like seeing strategies and options also in an arena shooter and it not to be only twitch fast paced aim and timing based gameplay and yes that excites me as well as when the players aren't at each other all the time, it adds some kind of tension to the game for me, I don't want it to be like the so called "knife round" in CS kinda game where the team that is starting with the best first engagement typically always wins.
            Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 05-10-2017, 12:57 PM.

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              #21
              Most duel combos are done to sound cues, and opponent tracking with no line of sight on your target. You almost never have a reason to move then. This is a problem with the combo whether you are standing, shuffling your feel, or doing back flips.
              Originally posted by Mysterial
              An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                #22
                Originally posted by rAge. View Post

                You clearly not understand the idea, this thread not concerns combo vs. stombo comparison, it's only used as good example. High reward but low effort, skill needed to achieve particular effect. Damage, range, splash - everything has to do with it. Used in the way I described, it's very high reward but nor skill needed nor take any risk. None other weapon can be used like that, maybe except of rockets but in less degree.
                Only that is pretty much what I described you were saying apart from the low risk part. Using a firemode in way that isn't difficult to do damage = high reward but low effort.

                I don't understand why you are claiming nothing else can be used like that. Shock combo might have some of the highest reward, but the risk isn't quite zero. You can do the exact same technique with a rocket, bio, flak or sniper shot while standing still around a corner and waiting for an opponent you know is coming. For those the risk is even closer to zero as you don't have to stay still.
                Any burst damage weapon can be used like a stand combo, the only difference is the potential reward.
                Stand combos like this have been done in every UT, especially in gametypes where you can expect people to be in certain areas (CTF) or where you can hear people coming (Duel).

                I'm not saying it's not a problem, it isn't fun to play against and it isn't fun to watch a Duel game like that.
                Some real solutions that aren't utterly arbitrary and unintuitive would be to look at footstep and shock core firing audio for example. The defending player has a big advantage as far as audio at the moment.
                Other things to look at would be the damage and ammo consumption of both shock primary and secondary. If cores bring most of the damage and ammo with them then spamming them for no reason other than them becoming a potential combo is discouraged more.
                As far as the Duel gametype itself there are a lot of things you can do to discourage camping like that, especially for the player that's in control. If you need time to do other rewarding things then you can't spend that time on waiting for people to come around corners as much.
                Last edited by Stolid; 05-10-2017, 04:44 PM.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Stolid View Post
                  Some real solutions that aren't utterly arbitrary and unintuitive would be to look at footstep and shock core firing audio for example. The defending player has a big advantage as far as audio at the moment.
                  I'm against changing something good (audio, footsteps) just to make stombo less effective. Sounds are on the good way currently, we need to hear opponent. Still, we have some field to improve them, which could affect stombo - own weapon could be quiet, footsteps of teammates should be different etc. Fast idea - shock could make some little noise while it's active weapon. This could be easy and intuitive solution for problem with traps.
                  Last edited by rAge.; 05-10-2017, 06:23 PM.

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                    #24
                    I don't see stombos as an issue. Maybe people that ***** Shock use them a lot but your average skilled player doesn't just stand there doing stombos in a 1v1 fight, and if you do in most matches with good players you get your head popped off by a sniper.

                    People need to quit making "stombos" out to be some sort of bad or negative thing too. Yea you are vulnerable when you are standing still but you're also the most accurate when you're standing still so there is absolutely nothing wrong with not moving to do a combo sometimes and you're not a noob if you do it. Getting tired of people complaining about it in game. This whole idea you must do fancy mid air combos all the time to be "leet" is dumb.
                    Last edited by ness 710; 05-10-2017, 08:37 PM.

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                      #25
                      I do think they need to do away with the minimum 45 damage. That would require more accuracy with the combo, yet still make it lethal.
                      Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

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                        #26
                        Why not just add recoil to the alt fire? Then you're throwing off the aim and people lose incentive to just stand still because moving or not they still have to re-take aim to get the combo.

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                          #27
                          Recoil after firing is a good idea!

                          also sniper needs nerf/changes i.e. Semi-automatic to reduce people standing around smiling across the map.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Stolid View Post
                            Since everything is easier to aim when you don't have to account for your own movement, are we going to apply this across the board?
                            If you don't move enough your rockets, sniper, etc also do 70% damage of their normal damage and use up 4 times as much ammo per shot?
                            While we are at it, why not let distance also decide damage. Hitting a combo 2000 units away takes a lot more skill than 1000 units away so it gets to do twice the damage? Naturally It would only use half the ammo as well.
                            wise man, let's keep it simple
                            Cunni, 37 years old, 16 years of UT, 90% CTF, 10% Duel
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                              #29
                              agreed,map awareness would help u avoid them. besides pro players use standing combos as well, just depends on the situation

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