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Weapon balance - Bio, Link and Mini - need to be stronger?

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    Weapon balance - Bio, Link and Mini - need to be stronger?

    Bio - primary fire is now useless. Bio rifle is only usefull on short range and against Flak and Rocket is 21 damage per hit joke. It should be stronger - at least 30 damage per hit or even 35 damage like in UT 2004. Every fire mode of every weapon in UT should have usage and Bio primary fire mode should be dangerous in short range fights. I know that secondary attack is very strong but it is also very hard to hit with, so it isn't reason why primary fire mode is useless.
    Link - primary fire mode is OK, only overheating is annoying when you want to use it in short range fights because it is stronger than secondary fire mode if you are able to hit with most plasma balls.
    Secondary attack is underpowerd. It should be dangerous in short range but now when somebody misses his Flak shot, he don't have to be afraid, because he will still have two or three more shots before link user kill him. Why should somebody use Link when is Flak so much stronger? Link shouldn't be only finishing weapon but now it is almost sure suicide when you attack somebody, who have armor, with Link. In UT 99 was Link secondary too strong but now is to weak, let's make some compromise. I think Link Gun secondary should do 30% more damage. Link shouldn't be only finishing weapon, that's bad!
    Stinger Minigun - this weapon should be strong at mid-range fights but it isn't because is very weak so nobody really uses it. In UT 99 maps were usally quite small with many tight corridors and Mini was strong - big damage and ROF, in UT 2004 maps were usually much more bigger and spacius ( for example compare Deck in UT 99 and UT 2004 ) and Mini was weaker than it was in UT 99 but it was OK because you have much more time to kill somebody with Rocket or Flak before they started to be dangerous. But now in UT 4 are maps usually small and tigh (like UT 99) but Mini is weak as it was in UT 2004. In new UT there is no place for using Minigun. It needs to be stronger beceause when I use Mini I am quite desperate how weak is this weapon. Mini is bad even for finishing. Thats the reason why nobody uses it. Flak and ASMD will be always more interesting but Mini was very good in mid range fights but now I have to use Shock in mid range fights if I want to survive. I would raised Mini ROF by 25 - 30% or this weapon will be only desperate solution when you don't have other weapons.
    Secondary Mini firemode is useless. They feared that current secondary firemode will be spammy so they made it so weak = useless. Bring back Shards or acurate fire from UT 2004.

    (I am really sorry if I spamed more same topics, but I thought that a posted then not because this topic is shown here eight hours after posting )
    Last edited by Ragnar0002; 08-23-2017, 12:03 PM.

    #2
    NO.

    Bio primary seems fine to me. You seem to be using the weapon improperly, the primary goo sticks to surfaces so people may still be hurt by it even if you missed also mixing usage of sticky goo and sliding goo I find to be quite effective at times.

    Link stronger really!? Link alt is stronger than flak at close range. Primary seems fine. However I think the link gun may get nerfed on both fire modes in the future.

    Stinger minigun is strong at mid range and it's alt fire is great for softening up targets at mid to long range. This alt fire mode is the most useful the minigun has ever had (not counting UT99's as an alt fire mode) how can you call it useless, it is fantastic for defense and you can hit guy who are behind cover. I can see this gun being nerfed a bit as well. The minigun was better that flak and rockets in UT2k4.

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      #3
      Bio is complicated. The combination of seeking big globs, and the tertiary rapid sliding primary fire make it semi-formidable at close range, you just have to set it up, which requires multiple steps. The longer you have to hold it, the longer it suffers from the same issue that mini and link have: They don't fit the current meta.

      Every other weapon has powerful "peek and poke" capabilities. The high damage and efficacy of the weapons, combined with the lack of responsive movement is making this game all about short engagements. Lots of peek and poke, lots of +back. This is a problem for these three weapons, as cornering a target into engaging with them for an extended period of time is difficult. So spawn rape with them is your best bet, saving ammo in the other weapons for more spirited engagements.

      Link tuning is bad all around. The high velocity of primary makes it not spammy enough, as you can't float a bunch of projectiles down range to distract and confuse, or deal larger amounts of damage to crowds. It's tuned to be a dueling weapon, and isn't consistent enough to compete with the rest of the dueling weapons. Best range for primary is within range of secondary, so it becomes this alternating short range weapon to avoid overheating, and useless mid to long range weapon, unless you are countering cores, and melting standers. Mini is a death laser, and is insanely powerful in game types where "peek and poke" isn't as viable. Most notably CTF and Blitz. Secondary mini is guaranteed damage. It's velocity and hit cylinder combination are laughably easy to score damage with, but it's rate and damage are not distracting enough to stop a target from poking you to death with higher burst capable weapons, which forces it into a peek and poke mode as well, which is a slow grind for a rapid fire, low damage weapon.

      Movement is muddy to accentuate the ping compensation/prediction model. Weapons are "visceral" because I don't know why, but probably also related to the ping compensation/prediction model. Fast projectiles, and less jarring movement will result in less rubber banding when the game corrects pings.

      I'm still of the mind that you can't have a game with slow moving projectiles, and ping compensation that looks and plays well. Save it for the CoD kiddies, I want to dodge projectiles.
      Originally posted by Mysterial
      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

      Comment


        #4
        I wouldn't mind the Bio primary being more powerful and the Link secondary being easier to hit with at close range, though that may be my marginal PC hardware talking. I am mostly okay with the limitations of those weapons.

        The Minigun primary, however, is trash. The secondary is weak and really only useful at medium range, but the primary is far too weak. It needs a much higher rate of fire and faster spin-up time. I thought the Minigun was the best weapon in UT99, with the primary for medium to long range, and the secondary for really close-up fights. This game needs that kind of weapon, too. Right now, the Link primary is the closest thing we have to that style of weapon.

        My $0.02.

        Comment


          #5
          Mini wasn't supposed to be the best weapon in UT99. It was tuned for internet pings of the day (which made it OP when pings got low with the boom in broadband), and it imparted a default amount of momentum per the small damage per shot it did which cased a "lockdown" phenomenon that made it even easier to train on your target.

          Evidence of this can be seen in Unreal, which had much more modest weapon damaged as it was tuned for offline play (no latency). Pretty much when they polished the botpack into an online title, they defaulted "hardcore" mode, and it juiced everything up to compensate for online pings.

          This, however is pretty much abandonware at this point. They never even got to a weapon balancing phase, most of the attributes are just place keepers held over from UT3, and most people online are playing a set of mutated weapons tuned by the comp community, which I personally thing are pretty bad.
          Originally posted by Mysterial
          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

          Comment

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