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    Making the Enforcer more usefull

    I would really like to see the Enforcer become a more usable weapon, I feel the effectiveness of the enforcer compared to all other weapons, the difference is too much. Why does the enforcer need to be weaker? Why cant the starting weapon also compete on the same level as weapons you find throughout a level? It doesnt need to be Rocket launcher or Shock rifle good, but lets at least make it on the same level of fun and usefulness as the Bio Rifle. Every map you play, you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to spawn and find a weapon within seconds that replaces the Enforcer. For the most part its an invisible weapon that is never used. I want to see the Enforcer become a weapon that you can use as a primary skill weapon with enough practice and skill. Heres some ideas, I think ill try to WIP a few of them up in the next few days.

    -Tracking bullets: This can be an alternate fire feature, but as soon as you hit someone with an Enforcer bullet, the gun then fires tracking bullets that change direction to hit the target. Now im not saying the bullets make a 90 degree turn around corners, but what could happen is something similar to the Sniper Rifle head shot circles. Once you hit the enemy, you can start using Secondary fire, the player the bullets are tracking to would get a red circle around them or their skins would show a different color. As long as your aim cursor is on the target, the bullets are guaranteed to hit. So you cant hit someone with a tracker bullet, look at the ground and start shooting at kill them. This feature would do nothing more than increase the skill ceiling and the accuracy of the weapon. No changes made to damage.

    -Explosive Rounds: As simple as it sounds, secondary fire shoots slower firing, high damage, micro explosive rounds. The bullets do twice the damage of primary fire, at the cost of 2 rounds per shot and have a small splash radius.

    -Everybody Drops/Duel: Anytime a player dies, they drop their primary and their enforcer, when you pick up a dropped enemy weapon, you automatically get duel enforcers.

    -Buckshot: Secondary fires a buckshot, ultra close range shotgun shell. Unlike the Flank Cannon, Shotgun shells do not bounce and the distance of which they are effective is limited to a couple of meters. Similar to the real world shotgun shell pistol called "The Judge"

    -Ultra Shot: A single shot that consumes all ammo (must have full ammo). Its not a single shot of all the bullets, but more like you charge up the gun, and the fire rate shoots through the roof, once you release the charge, all the bullets fire in the span of a second. The recoil is nearly uncontrollable and its more of a luck shot than anything, but extremely effective when on target.

    -C4 Grenade: The Enforcer comes equipment with C4 explosive. Once activated the Enforcer explodes within 3 seconds. The player can either throw the Enforcer in the direction of other players or hold onto the Enforcer ensuring it explodes next to another player. The explosion would have a blast radius greater than a single rocket and a full impact explosion would deal 100 damage.

    As I said it doesnt need to be overpowered, but I would like to see it be a weapon that I can actually use as a primary weapon instead of just that gun that appears on my screen for a few seconds when I spawn and am running after a better weapon.
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    #2
    Originally posted by -jay- View Post
    I would really like to see the Enforcer become a more usable weapon, I feel the effectiveness of the enforcer compared to all other weapons, the difference is too much. Why does the enforcer need to be weaker? Why cant the starting weapon also compete on the same level as weapons you find throughout a level? It doesnt need to be Rocket launcher or Shock rifle good, but lets at least make it on the same level of fun and usefulness as the Bio Rifle. Every map you play, you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to spawn and find a weapon within seconds that replaces the Enforcer. For the most part its an invisible weapon that is never used. I want to see the Enforcer become a weapon that you can use as a primary skill weapon with enough practice and skill. Heres some ideas, I think ill try to WIP a few of them up in the next few days.
    The primary weapon you spawn with, in an ideal world, should be powerful enough to get you by until you find better weapons that deal more damage and can either A) be more effective and longer range (shock/sniper), B) induce damage over an area (rockets/flak) or simply be useful finishing off an opponent (link/stinger).

    In UT99 and UT3, if I remember correctly, the enforcers in these games were solid weapons to spawn with (though I do remember early on in UT3 that the enforcer was labelled as "over powered". Whether that is true or not I have no idea). In contrast, the UT2K* starting weapon, the assault rifle, was pretty poor in regards to it's primary fire, although if used cleverly the grenade firing secondary could do a fair bit of damage. In all honesty, I have yet to see someone complain about how overly or ineffective the enforcer is presently in UT4.

    As for the bio being useful, it certainly can be, but only in the right hands. It takes a while to get used to and takes a fair amount of practice to get used to the arcs based on the primary and secondary charges (not sure what UT3's is like, all I remember is hating how easy it was to use).

    In TDM, throwing your enforcer/assault rifle to teammates to give them extra firepower has always been common place, and I can only imagine that with the damage potential of the enforcer in UT4, it would be a boon to TDM players.

    -Tracking bullets: This can be an alternate fire feature, but as soon as you hit someone with an Enforcer bullet, the gun then fires tracking bullets that change direction to hit the target. Now im not saying the bullets make a 90 degree turn around corners, but what could happen is something similar to the Sniper Rifle head shot circles. Once you hit the enemy, you can start using Secondary fire, the player the bullets are tracking to would get a red circle around them or their skins would show a different color. As long as your aim cursor is on the target, the bullets are guaranteed to hit. So you cant hit someone with a tracker bullet, look at the ground and start shooting at kill them. This feature would do nothing more than increase the skill ceiling and the accuracy of the weapon. No changes made to damage.

    -Explosive Rounds: As simple as it sounds, secondary fire shoots slower firing, high damage, micro explosive rounds. The bullets do twice the damage of primary fire, at the cost of 2 rounds per shot and have a small splash radius.

    -Everybody Drops/Duel: Anytime a player dies, they drop their primary and their enforcer, when you pick up a dropped enemy weapon, you automatically get duel enforcers.

    -Buckshot: Secondary fires a buckshot, ultra close range shotgun shell. Unlike the Flank Cannon, Shotgun shells do not bounce and the distance of which they are effective is limited to a couple of meters. Similar to the real world shotgun shell pistol called "The Judge"

    -Ultra Shot: A single shot that consumes all ammo (must have full ammo). Its not a single shot of all the bullets, but more like you charge up the gun, and the fire rate shoots through the roof, once you release the charge, all the bullets fire in the span of a second. The recoil is nearly uncontrollable and its more of a luck shot than anything, but extremely effective when on target.

    -C4 Grenade: The Enforcer comes equipment with C4 explosive. Once activated the Enforcer explodes within 3 seconds. The player can either throw the Enforcer in the direction of other players or hold onto the Enforcer ensuring it explodes next to another player. The explosion would have a blast radius greater than a single rocket and a full impact explosion would deal 100 damage.
    These sound more like something you'd find in COD, PayBack

    I wouldn't mind seeing these and more for the other weapons in UT4 as a mutator or mod, though, in all honesty.

    As I said it doesnt need to be overpowered, but I would like to see it be a weapon that I can actually use as a primary weapon instead of just that gun that appears on my screen for a few seconds when I spawn and am running after a better weapon.
    I think it would be considered over powered if you never had to seek out a better weapon. Different weapons can be usable and very powerful in the right environments that play to their strengths. A starting weapon that can allow you to deal damage whilst running away, or a weapon that allows you to give as good as you get up close would be a solid idea. That way, you'd be able to run away and be able to gain kills if someone was silly enough to stray too close to you.
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      #3
      Im not saying use all of them, but something to make the gun more fun and useful. Primary fire of single shot and secondary fire of burst shot of primary...those are just kinda boring. With the abundance of weapons near player spawns its a weapon that sees so little use in the game. And COD...thats a bit harsh dont ya think?
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        #4
        Originally posted by DSK- View Post
        In UT99 and UT3, if I remember correctly, the enforcers in these games were solid weapons to spawn with (though I do remember early on in UT3 that the enforcer was labelled as "over powered". Whether that is true or not I have no idea). In contrast, the UT2K* starting weapon, the assault rifle, was pretty poor in regards to it's primary fire, although if used cleverly the grenade firing secondary could do a fair bit of damage. In all honesty, I have yet to see someone complain about how overly or ineffective the enforcer is presently in UT4.
        UT3's Enforcer was a decent weapon in standard game modes but the lack of a firemode with more punch & knockback like the 2k4 Assault Rifle's grenades made for very un-fun spawning scenarios in Warfare (until the Titan pack, but most of my gameplay time was before that).

        I added a prototype version of the Enforcer with a grenade firemode. I have also been considering tweaking this projectile so the shot it fires is more of an energy-based round (~50-75 damage) rather than a grenade, since that may be more suited to the appearance of the Enforcer model. Beyond that, I was then thinking making it so that if the Enforcer is tossed, the weapon itself self-destructs, becomes a timed grenade. The latter feature would preempt issues with players tossing Enforcers to teammates in TDM, but I just think the idea of a pistol with a self-destruct on it is kind of fitting for the type of dystopian, brutal future UT represents. Lore-wise, the explanation would be that each Enforcer is biometrically keyed to the combatant and only unlocked if they die.
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          #5
          I personally don't want to see the Enforcer have a grenade launcher. The UT99 Enforcer had the best damage/versus RoF of any start weapon in the UT series, and it did not dominate over other weapons nor did it give players a reason not to pick up and use additional weapons. Use of any weapon depended more on the unique situation of engagement, to include distance between opponents and immediate map layout, as well as personal preferences. Going back to a higher damage and lower RoF will give the weapon more character than the AR or UT3 Enforcer. I don't know about you guys, but the thrill of whipping out dual-wielded Enforcers on an unsuspecting opponent was a thrill and a half, even more so when I nailed him.
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            #6
            YES !...UT3 enforcer was just like a toy and not useful but UT99 was the best !...{UT4 enforcer is just like UT3 }...i want something like UT99 enforcer and without VFX
            in my opinion UT99 was the best in movement and gunplay and UT2004 was cool in level design and character design and UI and menu and Game Modes and music and etc.it was a really standard game between UT games.{But again UT99 level design was fine too}

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              #7
              I have similar thoughts as you on the Enforcer, I'd want SOMETHING which makes it more fun to use, it was just too boring in UT3. The only good thing it was for UT3 was longrange hitscan with perfect accuracy if not spamming the fire button which works great on large open maps especially I'm thinking VCTF-Containment and being on top/behind the small hill facing the enemy base, it's incredibly annoying to "escape" that weapon when the enemy abuses it from that place. +1 the ability to easily trip over a player in VTCF / Warfare from the hoverboard. :P ("Enforcer to the rescue"tm).

              Other than it just needs something, unsure what, I actually found the grenades very fun to use in UT2k4, but primary fire felt quite useless again. I quite enjoyed UT99's enforcer too (because it had the best balancing in the series) even if again just having one kind of firemode makes it for more "boring" / non-dynamic. I mean just "burst-firing" / rapid-firing doesn't make for such a drastic difference gameplay possibilities as having a bouncing grenade can allow (shoot a grenade into a corridor without exposing yourself to be more defensive kind of thing which also weapons like the Ripper & Bio rifle allows).

              I'm not saying I necessarily think grenades are the go, NO, I just wish for a more "fun" and dynamic experience between primary & secondary fire. The burst mode is just about the worst idea you could find for secondary fire. It barely adds anything to the gameplay aspect. At least the UT99's rapid-fire mode was useful since it was a fully automatic so it made it very useful for very close-combat since the spread was bigger rendering it useless in medium - long-range but the increase in rate of fire obviously was useful for close-range spam. If you compare UT3's burst mode like-wise, where is burst-firing actually more useful? Other than noobs thinking it is (lending them a bigger chance to hit? The problem is that it may have increased the chance to get a hit but certainly doesn't increase the chance to get a kill, from my experience more the opposite).

              This is why I like UT, the weapons have all their own usage scenarios and tactics depending on map and spot on the map etc. I always WHOLEHEARTEDLY welcome weapon mechanics which renders different modes of fire useful for different kind of scenarios since that's one of those things I want that an experienced player shall get a benefit from, knowing when and how to use what weapon in which way.
              Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 10-21-2014, 01:09 PM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by silently12 View Post
                YES !...UT3 enforcer was just like a toy and not useful but UT99 was the best !
                Not useful ? ut3's enforcer was nerfed with the mutator "nerforcer" because it was overpowered It was good for any range, primary fire for long /mid and burst mode for close.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by rAge. View Post
                  Not useful ? ut3's enforcer was nerfed with the mutator "nerforcer" because it was overpowered It was good for any range, primary fire for long /mid and burst mode for close.
                  It wasn't useful.it was stupid !...it was not even close to UT99 enforcer.dont know how can i say that.but " bad aiming "...it was a big problem for me.you shooting here but it shooting on other place...ut99 even was better in long range too {for me}...and dual enforcer in UT99 was way better than UT3.
                  And sniper too in UT99 you shooting to other people As*s and it saying "head shot !" it was cool for me.and you should aim on enemies not in the way which they are walking (Not ahead of them)} my english is bad and i dont know who to say that I WANT UT99 GUNPLAY UT3 was very "UNREAL"

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by -jay- View Post

                    -Tracking bullets:

                    Auto-aim is not going to train the player to be better, and AA gets heavily frowned upon as a mechanic in an Arena Shooter.

                    -Explosive Rounds:
                    No one would ever use primary fire leaving us with another Bio-rifle.

                    -Everybody Drops/Duel:
                    Completely unbalanced, Enforcer 2X is meant to be a rarer reward, which is why they're so powerful.

                    -Buckshot:

                    Redundant with flak, not bouncing is not enough of a difference. People use flak mainly to get close kills not bounce kills.

                    -Ultra Shot:

                    Leaving someone defenseless with nothing but the Impact Hammer afterwords is one of the main reasons the Enforcer currently sucks, this just speeds the process up.

                    -C4 Grenade:
                    Same problem as above. Enforcer becomes useless 1 shot throwaway weapon, then you only have the hammer and thus screwed any point immediately after.
                    Doesn't look like you thought anything through and you're just spit-balling random ideas.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                      I have similar thoughts as you on the Enforcer, I'd want SOMETHING which makes it more fun to use, it was just too boring in UT3. The only good thing it was for UT3 was longrange hitscan with perfect accuracy if not spamming the fire button which works great on large open maps especially I'm thinking VCTF-Containment and being on top/behind the small hill facing the enemy base, it's incredibly annoying to "escape" that weapon when the enemy abuses it from that place. +1 the ability to easily trip over a player in VTCF / Warfare from the hoverboard. :P ("Enforcer to the rescue"tm).

                      Other than it just needs something, unsure what, I actually found the grenades very fun to use in UT2k4, but primary fire felt quite useless again. I quite enjoyed UT99's enforcer too (because it had the best balancing in the series) even if again just having one kind of firemode makes it for more "boring" / non-dynamic. I mean just "burst-firing" / rapid-firing doesn't make for such a drastic difference gameplay possibilities as having a bouncing grenade can allow (shoot a grenade into a corridor without exposing yourself to be more defensive kind of thing which also weapons like the Ripper & Bio rifle allows).

                      I'm not saying I necessarily think grenades are the go, NO, I just wish for a more "fun" and dynamic experience between primary & secondary fire. The burst mode is just about the worst idea you could find for secondary fire. It barely adds anything to the gameplay aspect. At least the UT99's rapid-fire mode was useful since it was a fully automatic so it made it very useful for very close-combat since the spread was bigger rendering it useless in medium - long-range but the increase in rate of fire obviously was useful for close-range spam. If you compare UT3's burst mode like-wise, where is burst-firing actually more useful? Other than noobs thinking it is (lending them a bigger chance to hit? The problem is that it may have increased the chance to get a hit but certainly doesn't increase the chance to get a kill, from my experience more the opposite).

                      This is why I like UT, the weapons have all their own usage scenarios and tactics depending on map and spot on the map etc. I always WHOLEHEARTEDLY welcome weapon mechanics which renders different modes of fire useful for different kind of scenarios since that's one of those things I want that an experienced player shall get a benefit from, knowing when and how to use what weapon in which way.
                      Exactly, im not saying all those ideas are good ideas, but they are ideas worth talking about. I just see no reason we should let the Enforcer be the weak boring weapon that it is. I want to see the Enforcer be just as fun/deadly as any other weapon in the right hands.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by -jay- View Post
                        Exactly, im not saying all those ideas are good ideas, but they are ideas worth talking about. I just see no reason we should let the Enforcer be the weak boring weapon that it is. I want to see the Enforcer be just as fun/deadly as any other weapon in the right hands.
                        The idea of making the enforcer just as kill-viable as every other gun would only work if you started with every gun like in TAM or RA. If you build a gun that no one will ever want to stop using because it's just as easy to kill with as every other gun, there's no incentive to people getting another gun. I want the enforcer better balanced just like anyone, but it's going to take more thought than half-baked ideas, particularly because of the dual enforcers dynamic. I think you'd find it hard for someone who would say that dual enforcers are not fun, it's just that single enforcers are not.

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                          #13
                          I really liked the UT2k4 enforcer. First the rifle design. Then that it was a no-frills bullet weapon with no excessive fire rate or damage. And third that you had those three extra surprises on ALT-fire.

                          I would have loved it to be dual wielded (akimbo) too with less accuracy - so that it's not twice as powerful but possibly just as powerful as only one (or only slightly more powerful, because it eats through ammo faster) but simply more fun.
                          Running around akimbo is fun!

                          I also like auto-regeneration for Enforcer ammo.

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