Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

12/05/14 Build - Flak Problems - Very Weak - Too much spread at close range.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    12/05/14 Build - Flak Problems - Very Weak - Too much spread at close range.

    I know some of us were concerned about the damage output of the previous Flak Gun. However, after several duels with the 12/05/2014 version, I kind of miss it.

    The Flak from the previous build is much more ideal than the current. It was really one of the best ways to successfully retake control via high-end 1v1. The current Flak damage is just not there. If it is there, then the speed / spread is too great to be effective. You literally have to be in punching distance to produce decent damage output with the latest Flak, and even then I'm surprised on how little damage it does.

    The pre-12/05 Flak damage was fine at close range. It merely needed some toning down via mid-range damage.


    I would say the best thing to do at this point would be to tighten the shard spread for the first 10 feet. After that, the spread should greatly increase.
    Last edited by de`pain; 12-06-2014, 06:06 PM.
    www.mouserpad.com

    #2
    It's nit just the power. The overall feel of the gun is just completely off now. It just doesn't feel like a flak cannon anymore.
    BeyondUnreal Podcast
    r/UnrealTournament Moderator

    Comment


      #3
      I don't know, I kinda like the change but I think the spread should definitely not be as much at the very close range. Previously I felt mostly the damage was overpowering, the spread was previously a little bit on the low side though perhaps and to me the ideal is something in-between these two configs, just some rather subtle changes needed. Not sure exactly what damage is deal, that's a little hard to say at this point still since it's like hard to approximate how many shards are going to hit the players on average kinda. With this huge spread it may be a bit on the low side but if the spread was slightly bit tighter it might be okay.
      Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-06-2014, 05:19 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Flak now is by no means under powered now. Secondary and primary timed are still 1shot kills. Needing to land 2 shots compared to 1 until you get used to it again does not make it under powered.
        You cant just now aim in the general direction but need a bit more precision thats all.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unl3ash3D View Post
          Flak now is by no means under powered now. Secondary and primary timed are still 1shot kills. Needing to land 2 shots compared to 1 until you get used to it again does not make it under powered.
          You cant just now aim in the general direction but need a bit more precision thats all.
          It is very under-powered. A dead-on primary Flak hit on a freshly spawned person will kill them. It should. However, to do so requires melee distance (literally touching). The risk/reward verse a fully stacked/skilled opponent is not worth it. As for the Flak's secondary, commenting on the Flak Ball's damage is sort of pointless, as a dead-on hit rarely happens. This is why such Flak Ball hits generally make it into glorious frag videos.


          The UT series typically had rated weapons as such:

          AAA Go-To Weapons: Shock, Sniper, Rocket Launcher, Flak, Mini
          B Weapons: Pulse / Link
          Pick-Up because it's there weapons: Goo / Ripper

          Flak, IMO, has gone from a AAA weapon to a "Pick-Up because it's there" weapon.
          Last edited by de`pain; 12-06-2014, 06:12 PM.
          www.mouserpad.com

          Comment


            #6
            Flak ball needs to send out more shards and flak primary needs a better more controllable ricochet. UT99 was great for spamming around corners at tight angles. UT4 flak practically sends the flak right back at you when you shoot a wall, there doesn't seem to be any good way of angling it around corners.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Dead_ View Post
              Flak ball needs to send out more shards and flak primary needs a better more controllable ricochet. UT99 was great for spamming around corners at tight angles. UT4 flak practically sends the flak right back at you when you shoot a wall, there doesn't seem to be any good way of angling it around corners.
              Yep I was pretty good with the flak secondary in all versions up to now but this current version feels off. Secondary flak often does no or little damage.
              I also feel the flight is wrong, the drop off is to short - not by a lot but enough to notice. A lot of elevation does not give the distance it use to.

              Comment


                #8
                Some good points in this thread, but I don't agree the flak in the previous version was better. It was waaaaaaay overpowered and far too easy to hit with.

                First point is the initial burst needs to tighter then gradually spread. It's pretty simple, it should be more powerful in close range then spread and weaken in longer distances

                Second point is how it reacts around corners and travel distance. A perfect example is deck shooting around the corner in the pit protecting armor. It should bounce multiple times off each wall and travel as far as the boot area horizontally. That's just an example, another one would be dm-solid and shooting around the corner of the shock platform when someone runs up it

                Overall the changes are for the better and improved balance imo. Make the initial burst tighter so it works better in close range, make the shards bouncier so they reflect off walls better and it would be great

                Comment


                  #9
                  Aside from a tighter initial spread, I think more shards would help too. It looks kind of wimpy at the moment.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by bad_infinite View Post
                    Aside from a tighter initial spread, I think more shards would help too. It looks kind of wimpy at the moment.
                    I agree...
                    a little smoke with the explosion would be nice...
                    AKA TwocensT

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think the reason we are seeing all of these reaction threads is due to the weapons being objectively worse than they were before. They needed to be worse though, because they were way overpowered. The same thing happened when they slowed the rockets and translocator down. Obviously you liked it the other way, because it was easier to get kills with.

                      Speaking of rocket speed, I really wish they would slow those down again. Just because it feels worse initially, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cafe View Post
                        I think the reason we are seeing all of these reaction threads is due to the weapons being objectively worse than they were before. They needed to be worse though, because they were way overpowered. The same thing happened when they slowed the rockets and translocator down. Obviously you liked it the other way, because it was easier to get kills with.

                        Speaking of rocket speed, I really wish they would slow those down again. Just because it feels worse initially, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
                        Just because there is a problem doesn't mean any solution is better than nothing. Trans is still pretty arguable whether it is better or worse than it was before. Same with rockets. I mean they could half the speed on them and that would allegedly be okay because people would get used to it eventually.

                        Flak is pretty much no improvement but is definitely worse in most ways than it was before. This is the perfect example where trying too hard to balance something sucked all of the fun out of it. Note that I'm not saying the Flak was not OP before.
                        HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                        BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Still being pre-alpha, any solution is just a test.

                          Knee jerk reactions are fine, but likely to be ignored, and justly so.
                          Originally posted by Mysterial
                          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by cafe View Post
                            They needed to be worse though, because they were way overpowered.
                            And

                            Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
                            This is the perfect example where trying too hard to balance something sucked all of the fun out of it. Note that I'm not saying the Flak was not OP before.
                            It is about balance between the weapons but I would also say this is UT so we are talking about over powered weapons which is fun, we must not take the fun out of it. Gibs flying across the room is fun, a hard to hit target blown apart is fun and satisfying.

                            Nothing will kill this game quicker than having to spend time grinding down the enemy before you can kill them.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              With impeccable timing I posted this before I tried the new build.
                              Flak is now much better as is all this build nice job.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X