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[concept] New Bio Rifle Functionality

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    [concept] New Bio Rifle Functionality

    Since the great DEVs revealed some new concepts on the BIO, I'm drudging this thread up again.

    First, I like that the devs are trying some things, and more specifically some ideas generated from the community.

    Here are my initial thoughts without taking it for a live run, and simply watching the developer stream.
    1.) I would add a delay in the web explosion.
    Noting my original comments quoted below, I absolutely love the "instaWeb".. but a delay would make it better I think.
    Imagine running towards a doorway with a loaded up bio and hitting the edge. A small delay would give you the time to run
    through that doorway without fragging you, but would then expand to a web to snag the person chasing you.
    Yes, this is a defensive tactic, but I think a good one.

    TLDR;
    I really wish UT gameplay allowed for easier combining of weapons.. such as the link activating the web. The speed of the gameplay makes it fairly non-useful unfortunately. However, keep looking for solutions to combine weapons please.. in particular the link. Maybe the link can electrify a body of water to zap opponents or something?? I don't know, but keep looking for solutions.

    2.) I'm skeptical on the current tennis balls :-).. I don't think they behave like goo. Goo lunge's and moves, and could bounce a bit, but
    goo doesn't react like tennis balls.

    3.) I would consider switching primary and secondary. The goo blob is definitely the most useful for obliterating an opponent with one hit.. I think it better fits in primary.. but whatever.. not going to push it too much ;-)

    That's all... keep up the good work!


    Quoting the OLD post here:
    EDIT: Pre alpha changes have made this post relatively outdated.. taking it off my signature!


    Good Sirs, I have been reading up on the bio threads, playing every iteration and I think I have a good solution to try for a succesful bio rifle.

    Maybe the DEV's are getting annoyed with the bio rifle changes by now ;-)... but we all know it's not quite there.

    Proposed New Functionality:

    1.) Primary Fire
    Primary should act very similar to the current Alt Charge. Alt Charge is the primary use of the gun anyway.. why not make it primary. Seams reasonable ;-)

    2.) Alternate Fire
    I think everyone is in agreement that the bio web is cool.. just simply not that useful in its present state. The key problems are: time to set up, too easy to see / destroy.
    Here is my proposed change:
    Press ALT, there is a small charge (with unique sound), then either:
    a: A bio web projectile gets sent and sticks to things around it.
    b: such as in the current build, a blob projectile get's sent, but this time, it auto explodes to a web upon impact.
    This would solve one of the major issues with the bio web.

    I think I said in another thread that tapping alt would produce an instant shot. I think instead, tapping alt should be the only trigger for a small delayed web shot (or blob shot that explodes into a web upon impact)

    3.) Primary + Alt fires
    Same as current.. the heightened fire is useful in some situations of close battle.


    The look of the new goo:
    Make the new goo semi transparent. This would help to solve the second problem of the Bio Web, which is that it's too easy to recognize. Also, I think semi transparent goo would look much cooler.

    That's all folks, back to your regularly scheduled schedule.


    Oh, one more thing...
    The Sound:
    The current web is too noisy.. it too easily gives away that there is a web in proximity. There is nothing stealth about the bio web currently, and the noise doesn't help. Make it less noisy ;-)

    It would be nice if the different new fire modes would have different sounds.
    Last edited by UffDa; 01-07-2016, 01:13 PM. Reason: new work
    -=uff-Da=-

    Concepts:
    BR - CutThroat | BR - Volleyminton |

    #2
    I quite like this idea. I'm not sure if this alternate fire is better/more balanced/fun/whatever reason insert here than simply one shot activation by any weapon of a fully charged goo but it's a rather neck-and-neck situation for me which I wouldn't mind either or. The advantage of it being possible to activate at-will by shooting it brings timed fun... fire a fully charged goo in a strategic position... wait for players to get closer and THEN shoot it. :P Brings defensive play to a whole new level for CTF. At least I'd possibly even wanna do some defensive play if that was possible (I'm usually a very offensive attacker), I'd imagine having a lot of fun with that alone.

    But one thing is for sure, I hope the current mechanic doesn't stay.
    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-15-2014, 04:08 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Oh, and 4.)
      Please make the blob a little less "cartoony". I think maybe some more transparency.. and a better (more realistic) "mist" is needed...

      More realistic (or unrealistic) in general please.
      -=uff-Da=-

      Concepts:
      BR - CutThroat | BR - Volleyminton |

      Comment


        #4
        I like the grenades, they look clean. I'm not sure about the 70 damage though given their speed and rof.

        The web I'm not a fan of, I don't think such mechanics work well in afps games and can lead to abuse, e.g. placing one at the redeemer portal on deck16. Also not a huge fan of the fog effect when it detonates.

        Comment


          #5
          To be honest, whilst watching the last Twitch stream, I thought it would be a disaster if they added that bio rifle to the game!

          The bio-web is a nice idea, but I can only see it being frustrating to play against.

          Similarly, spammy grenades would be nothing but frustrating to play against.

          It surely will not be added to the final game!

          On the positive side, I am pleased that they have recognised that the current Bio Rifle isn't a good enough weapon to go into the game and they are at least trying other ideas.
          Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Scoreboards lack player stats,Team Balance.

          My Pre-Alpha Highlights 2016 to early 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKlKQ349o8A | http://plays.tv/u/Smurgl

          Comment


            #6
            I like the idea of nades in UT. I at least want to try it and see how they play. I dont feel like a fan of the web, and I already love the current alt fire.

            Can you aim the web ball directly at someone for a kill?

            Comment


              #7
              I think as a balancing act for the bio web, it needs either these two changes:

              1) The loaded bio goo has to be shot once (any weapon) to explode => increase in tacticality fun factor

              or

              2) The web doesn't "explode" anymore but every goo-string a player touches breaks up and deals a certain amount damage (25~33'ish) => still keeps its usefulness especially for area denial or slowing down tactics.

              or

              3) Both. (depending if either two approaches on their own isn't enough and this also has the added plus of letting more choices into player's hands, keep the high damage bio blob on ground or exchange it for a larger area covering damage, ie more certaintity to deal SOME damage but statistically LESSER damage when it hits). Since I'm personally a fan of having lots of choices since it makes gameplay deeper since there's more cases where various options are preferred depending on map spot, situation with the enemy etc, this is my personal vote.


              The primary fire grenade launcher is a fun mechanic for sure, but it might feel a bit "TOO" mechanical for such a organic weapon in that first pass implementation at least with it's type of sounds and appearence of the bio grenade. Some more fitting messaging of the mechanic might be worth exploring. The damage of 70 might be slightly bit too much, at least I don't see how it warrants itself making 10 more dmg than sniper in the upcoming build due to it's versatality and defensive/tactical nature although I don't think it should be below 50 either for sure, 50 - 60 range is probably fine.
              Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 01-07-2016, 03:39 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                I think the instant Bio web will definitely be OP if they put in like that, and I think the devs acknowledged that as well, but it's a good way to get people to use (and abuse) it for one build and then see where it needs to go. The most OP thing about it is probably the explosion you get after destroying it - I think it would be mostly fine if you could shoot it with one rocket/flak shot and it would disappear without an explosion. But it really slows you down too much if you have to wait for the mist to dissipate after destroying it.

                As for the grenades, I don't like their look, I'd rather prefer they just be slightly different looking Bio globs, like Stolid's Bio Launcher. I think the Bio globs themselves look like they could have bouncy physics, kinda like Flubber. Dunno about the damage, it depends on how hard it is to avoid them - but it looks like 70 would be fine for a direct hit.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                  I think as a balancing act for the bio web, it needs either these two changes:

                  1) The loaded bio goo has to be shot once (any weapon) to explode => increase in tacticality fun factor

                  or

                  2) The web doesn't "explode" anymore but every goo-string a player touches breaks up and deals a certain amount damage (25~33'ish) => still keeps its usefulness especially for area denial or slowing down tactics.

                  or

                  [ship]

                  I like the idear of web strings doing their own damage. With that, shooting a web string should only get rid of that string perhaps.


                  Another whacky BIO IDEA:
                  ALT + FIRE charges the bio. On release a string (1 or 2 secs for fully charged) of goo squirts out in kinda like a water hose fashion.
                  This would allow damage to more than one player per shot in that the squirt follows your aim.
                  The more goo that lands, the larger the damage.

                  Here is what I'm leaning towards:
                  FIRE:
                  Charged Goo Blob, plus delayed exploding web if it doesn't land on anything organic (ie. character)

                  ALT:
                  I don't know.. either the grenades or current alt, with chasing bio.

                  ALT + FIRE: the squirter described above

                  :-)
                  -=uff-Da=-

                  Concepts:
                  BR - CutThroat | BR - Volleyminton |

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think bio altfire is amazing and one of the signature ways to kill people in the UT series, so I think changing it would be a bad idea. Lowering the dmg of the charged shots however should be considered.

                    I don't like the bouncy primary shots idea. It's redundant, we already have bouncy projectiles with the rocket grenades and flak primary.

                    What if primary bio shots applied a temporary debuff causing the target to take X% more dmg from all sources for Y seconds, or some such?
                    This way bio would be a useful weapon for all players in many situations and have its own unique utility instead of only being good for the 1-shot wonder and +back last-resort spam.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I really like the idea of the grenades, but the web idea I can't get behind at all. Especially with how easy it is to set up. There will be webbed goo doors everywhere you look if that thing makes it in. The blast radius seems too big by the video and the gas cloud afterwards just makes the gun even more OP looking. I will test it out when the build comes, but just by the video itself, it doesn't look promising.

                      If you could do the grenades as primary fire, and the charge up goo that is already in the game now as the secondary fire, I think that would be a good combination. (and PLEASE get rid of the goo that follows you. That is just a silly silly mechanic that spams up the game with very little skill involved.)
                      Ðarth|UA|
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                      Come play CTF and Elimination Pick Up Games (PUGS) with us at: https://discord.gg/BbPPCBx . You can also go to http://ut4pugs.us Hope to see you all there!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by darthUA View Post
                        If you could do the grenades as primary fire, and the charge up goo that is already in the game now as the secondary fire, I think that would be a good combination. (and PLEASE get rid of the goo that follows you. That is just a silly silly mechanic that spams up the game with very little skill involved.)
                        This ---^

                        I think it'd be perfect like this tbh, that way both primary and secondary have a unique use but you avoid having webs set up literally everywhere. I can see people spamming 2 or 3 of them onto flag stands or in corridors at a time which wouldn't exactly be beneficial to the flow of the game.
                        :|

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I like how everyone is hating on the web you can already make webs with bio + link in the current build all they have done is add better effects & made it easier to use by having it all in one rather than needing both the bio and link, i personally really like it as the setup now is useless & in my opinion the game needs better effects such as the new bio to remain interesting, I think they should keep the new one as is the other one mentioned with the bouncing globs is pretty boring, overall i really like the new change and hope to see it in the new build, the rockets look awesome.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Smurgl View Post
                            To be honest, whilst watching the last Twitch stream, I thought it would be a disaster if they added that bio rifle to the game!

                            The bio-web is a nice idea, but I can only see it being frustrating to play against.

                            Similarly, spammy grenades would be nothing but frustrating to play against.

                            It surely will not be added to the final game!

                            On the positive side, I am pleased that they have recognised that the current Bio Rifle isn't a good enough weapon to go into the game and they are at least trying other ideas.
                            I have the same opinion.
                            I think it will be too spammy and can easily block all pasages, talking about insta web.
                            They should just play with the primary and that 3rd fire option.
                            Web could be ok with the link gun and if they say that it takes long to make one and easy to destroy it then just make it harder to destroy or last bit longer or something

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Current bio secondary is useless imho. Anyone with a bit of experience or average reflexes can get a drink or puff a smoke while it's flying towards u and still have time to move.
                              Why so slow? Reminds me of Quakes BFG gun as the goo ball just slowly goes floating by.
                              What was the problem with 2k4 style? Not sure why everything has to be totally changed just because its a new game.
                              So if there's a UT5 does everything just completely overhauled again? Isn't there such a thing as the sweet spot and can we just stick with that?
                              I mean once u get it right it's right -leave it.
                              Grrr. Another one of my fav weps jacked.

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